Mastodawn

Dec 3, 2023

Someone asked me in regards to OS/1337 "why don't you just use mkroot from @landley ?"

https://landley.net/toybox/downloads/binaries/mkroot/latest/

And that is a valid question.

To sum it up:
1. #mkroot for #i486 requires 3MiB of storage and thus is not an option for the 1440kB target size of the current, minimalist system.

2. shure I could instead make a #Syslinux #bootFloppy but that feels like cheating...

3. In the end the idea of OS/1337 is to build a #TUI-based #Desktop that can be built to run on everything.

#OS1337

Index of /toybox/downloads/binaries/mkroot/latest

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

It's not that I dislike @landley 's work and #mkroot is propably the best starting point for #EmbeddedLinux development and everyone who wants to DIY a minimalist #Linux should check that out instead...
https://landley.net/toybox/

It's just that I intent OS/1337 to be a starting point for something wider in scope long-term than being the most frugally possible Linux that can compile itself and act as basis for the underlying #toybox/Linux that powers #Android.

What is toybox?

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

OS/1337 should allow people to #upcycle devices to something useful.

Not just to be a "1st class #Android developer" as @landley explained over 10 years ago [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmtP5Lg_t0#t=4m22s ] but also be a minimalist #Linux to do generic #CLI tools for and use as a daily-driver - capable with a #CLI.

To run on machines way too slow and low-end to be able to run #GUI's...

Embedded Linux Conference 2013 - Toybox: Writing a New Command Line From Scratch

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Stuff even #AdeliéLinux doesn't serve anymore or couldn't serve with a desktop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArGaJGFVH4 video via @ActionRetro

Installing Modern Linux on PowerPC in 2022 (New Adelie Linux Guide!)

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Something like a #minimalist #SBC that doesn't even have #HDMI but only a #serial #console for access...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfpptgb6W8

VT-69 Dumb Terminal

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

...like some older #Routers or #Servers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZUPpmXfT0

DEC VT320: The Classic 1987 Library Computer Terminal

Digital Equipment Corporation built plenty of terminals in the 70s and 80s, but we're focusing on the VT320-C2. Amber monochrome, LK201 keyboard, and a favor...

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

...or some old #ThinClients that can't even do @bunsenlabs or #PorteusKiosk but otherwise are still useable as "#FatClients" in the sense of just using a slimmed-down OS to work with.

Also OS/1337 intents to be fully transparent in the sense that it can be used for #CriticalInfrastructure by virtue of being fully-automateable "#BuildFromSource" so on fully #airgapped systems and networks it can be deployed after it went through the ardourous #audit pipeline said users demand.

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Kevin Karhan

Also OS/1337 could be a way more accessible alternative to @Raspberry_Pi and other #SBC's in that it allows people to #UseLonger or rather #Reuse and #Upcycle stuff...

Kinda like @landley said re: #Android #development the same should be possible for #Linux in general, allowing someone in Agbobloshie to cobble together something that works for them and at least allow someone to browse the web via #Lynx and http://frogfind.com ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXDrIvShZKU&t=219s

FrogFind!

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

OFC a lot of people will point out that cheap #Android devices are taking over #Africa faster and that a lot of places are already skipping the #Desktop & #Laptop phase of #Computing.

OFC, a #UsedMarket that is completely wack doesn't help in the #GlobalSouth as #LowSpecGamer showed in a deep dive into "#JustBuyUsed"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdGiSd02uV4

But as we acknowledge that all production is somewhat yet intrinsically harmful, we should at least try to #UseLonger, #Reuseand #Upcycle a lot harder!

What YouTubers get WRONG about used PC parts

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Still, better use something like #AdelieLinux on a #G4 #MacBook instead of throwing it away...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEG7pn_cGvI&t=505s via @ActionRetro

There's a NEW HOPE for PowerPC Linux! (Adelie RC 1.0)

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

So yeah, call me opportunistic but I'd rather think like @landley and other folks I know way longer like @stman in being a #situationist.

I install @ubuntu / #Ubuntu LTS on #Desktop and server since that's the least painful option to migrate #TechIlliterates and thus #normies to:

They don't care what #OS / #Browser/ ... they use.

All they want is get online, write an eMail, buy stuff Aperzon/eNay/ShitExpress, watch YouTuke & maybe print a letter if they feel fancy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmtP5Lg_t0&t=584s

Embedded Linux Conference 2013 - Toybox: Writing a New Command Line From Scratch

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

OFC #Ubuntu / @ubuntu has Problems in the end users don't care about the distro - they see a #PC or #Server as a #tool like a Pickup-Truck or Car or Hammer:

Things to get stuff done!

And that's why none of those I forcibly migrated had issues: Stuff just works so well for them they don't have any issues...

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Not to mention that sadly, @landley is right:

If #FLOSS would result in good #UI & #UX, #WebDevs like @fuchsiii would be out of their jobs!

And sadly that is a problem that only few [i.e. #Canonical at least does] adress [on their core product @ubuntu LTS Desktop - even tho @opensuse / #OpenSUSE's #YaST may be seen as easier to work with for entry-level #Sysadmins since it's a better reimagination to the #Windows Control Panel]...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmtP5Lg_t0&t=690s

Embedded Linux Conference 2013 - Toybox: Writing a New Command Line From Scratch

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

But in the end it's a different scope.

OS/1337 aims to be the #Software-esque equivalent of "you want to build a gadget? Just shove a @Raspberry_Pi #Pi0W / #Pi0W2 in it!" and thus be the slate for other projects of mine and also a nice and versatile #rescue system that could be configured [ahead of time!] to [Reverse-]#SSH from a system, providing a cornerstone to build something like a #vendor-independent #LOM / #BMC to #upcycle older systems into #headless #servers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-band_management

Out-of-band management - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Espechally since I've yet to see #OpenBMC-powered #Servers or #Workstations [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBMC ] on the market since manfacturers are too busy pushing their own #BMC-based #managment solutions and sell #DLC's aka. #Licenses to nickel and dime customers for already implemented and installed features like a proper #iKVM [at least #Dell does so with their #iDRAC9] ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface#Baseboard_management_controller

OpenBMC - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

One may also point to #YoctoProject instead of #toybox but that's just a fancier reimplementation of #LinuxFromScratch...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yocto_Project

Not to mention it's scope is way farther reaching...
https://docs.yoctoproject.org/what-i-wish-id-known.html

Yocto Project - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

Not to mention that with the #scalping issues that #RaspberryPi / @Raspberry_Pi had, looking at repurposing #ThinClients really makes for good #MiniServers that nibble power and are quite versatile...

In fact I got like 3 hp ThinClients for less than € 75 and they work great - they run @ubuntu LTS #UbuntuServer and @tails_live just fine...

And I'd rather turn one into a OS/1337 #TUI-based #Desktop longterm...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface

#OS1337

Thin client - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 3, 2023

And yes, I want to see @torproject / #Tor & #lynx work on OS/1337 as a goal...

Because why not?!!???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(network)

Tor (network) - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 4, 2023

Anyway: What @landley said applies to OS/1337 but I want said distro to be something people can daily-drive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkJkyMuBm3g&t=1295s

https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/111518251910696832

#OS1337 #Linux #EmbeddedLinux #embedded

Toybox vs BusyBox - Rob Landley, hobbyist

YouTube

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 4, 2023

And if spmeone wants to make something like #floppyfw that should be an option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppyfw

Floppyfw - Wikipedia

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 4, 2023

Also from my observation I can confirm @landley 's observations that #Copyleft doesn't help #Linux to the point that one can get archaic and long-outdated #Sourcecode like " #Viprinux " that is basically useless and is even older than #Floppinux.

https://www.viprinet.com/en/support/downloads

Also if #Viprinet still uses 2015-dated code then that's rather scary than anything to me as a #sysadmin.

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SweetAI Belle

Dec 8, 2023

@kkarhan @ActionRetro
Well... If I had an old G4 PowerMac, I'd personally probably turn it into a gaming machine, and put Escape Velocity Nova, Taskmaker, and other classic old Mac games on it.

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Kevin Karhan

Dec 8, 2023

@SweetAIBelle @ActionRetro OFC that'll be the prime use-case for one...

But what if you want to diagnose some issues or backup/restore it's drives with like dd ?

Cuz not everyone has a spare machine or fancy USB->SCSI Adaptors.