We need a solution to process international payments that isn't an American fintech company or cryptocurrency and is privacy-respectful like yesterday.
Please 🙏
Edit: By privacy-respectful, I don't mean anonymous. I mean a solution that practices data minimization, and does not share and monetize the data it collects.
@rhelune We have 2 different initiatives in the EU:
- Wero, a private-sector initiative by the European Payments Initiative (EPI): https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/europes-24-trillion-breakup-with-visa-and-mastercard-has-begun/
- and the EU-states initiative EuroPA for installing a central bank-backed digital currency usable across the eurozone: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html
And yes, the first step to become independent of US data-collectors is Wero.
Payment, and the banking world in general, are not privacy respecting in any way shape or form.
Your banker knows what you do with your money.
The only privacy respecting system of payment is cash. Period.
And I used to run complex IT systems for banks.
@ParadeGrotesque I don't mean anonymous. Anonymity and privacy are different concepts.
Of course, legal names and transaction information are necessary to collect for legal reasons. But, for example, facial prints aren't, copies of official ID by anyone else who isn't a bank aren't either, sharing this information to monetize it with commercial partners is entirely unnecessarily privacy-invasive.
There are many things that can make a payment processing solution more privacy-respectful, without being anonymous. Data minimization, and strict policies on access and sharing are key here.
If that's the case, then there are multiple initiatives in Europe to do that.
Wero and the EU commission digital euro are the two that come to mind.
The goal of both is to have Europe controlled digital transactions and money transfer facilities between banks all over Europe.
You can also take a look at things like GIE "Carte Bleue", which is France credit card system. There are similar systems in other European countries, which are US independent.
@Em0nM4stodon Good Luck finding anything at all...
Again: Good luck finding something, because the #US will basically criminalize anything even remotely competing to their " #Quadropoly " of #AMEX, #Visa, #MasterCard & PayPal!
I am not that negative. I think European systems will take off... Eventually... And provide a limited independence vs the big US 4. Lessons have been learned, the hard way (see ICC blacklisting, etc).
Privacy respecting European systems will be... But only slightly better than US providers.
But, going back to my original argument: cash is king. It's interesting to note that the country most attached to large euros banknotes is Germany.
@ParadeGrotesque @Em0nM4stodon I agree, and #Germany restricting #CashPayments to €5k is not only bad amidst the #Greedflation but also absurd.
@Em0nM4stodon @ParadeGrotesque yeah, I just acknowledge that so far it's extremely unlikely to ever be allowed to exist…
@Em0nM4stodon not sure where you are located, but us EU citizens in Germany, France and Belgium potentially already have access to WERO, which is a PayPal alternative handled by the partner banks.
It’s not much yet, but it’s a start!
Even for domestic payments in Canada, I can't recall ever seeing an online store use the Interac Online protocol that has been around for at least 15 years. I remember setting it up on my company's web store long ago, but soon after that we moved to an online store platform that simply didn't support it.
The closest I've seen is accepting email transfers but that takes a lot of manual processing and requires holding the order in limbo until payment is received.
@plutarch
Sending cash in the mail is illegal in France 😬 (probably elsewhere as well)
@Em0nM4stodon It's needed, not just to avoid feeding the fintech beast, but to avoid retaliation if you stand up to the Israeli regime and its support by the USA.
Eg judges and others on the International Criminal Court have lost access to critical financial services for daring to lay charges against Netenyahu.
https://apnews.com/article/international-court-sanctions-trump-icc-hague-4cdefe4de067432f6cdb9b137908c463
International Criminal Court judges and prosecutors are trying to live and work under the same financial and travel restrictions brought against Russian President Vladimir Putin and Osama bin Laden. Six judges, the chief prosecutor and two other staff members have been sanctioned by U.S. President Donald Trump for pursuing investigations into officials from the U.S. and Israel. Typically reserved for autocrats, crime bosses and the like, the sanctions can be devastating. They prevent the ICC officials and their families from entering the United States and have extended to the minutiae of their everyday lives. Despite what one judge described as the “small annoyances” caused by the sanctions, they told The Associated Press that they remain steadfast in their work.
@Em0nM4stodon Francesca Albanese has also been sanctioned by American fintech for telling the truth about what Israel is doing in Gaza.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjwbji7z11l
@Em0nM4stodon BRICS is supposed to be the rival system to US dollar.
Although, BRICS is in disarray since the Iran war kicked off, mostly due to India backstabbing other key member states.
@Em0nM4stodon That is illegal.
America has pushed AML laws on everyone. And I mean EVERYONE. Like, even Switzerland has no more banking anonymity.
Cryptocurrency was... well, an attempt, but, governments caught on too.
@gracie @Em0nM4stodon The point is that a lot of companies involved in transactions today sell information about the transactions they process to hundreds of companies unrelated to the transactions. This started as a way to slightly cut the fees charged to merchants so as to undercut competitors, but now it’s just a common business practice.
Full anonymity would be nice, but it’s possible to be better than the nightmare we have today without it.
Don't know if privacy-respecting but aren't these non-US payment systems?
JCB (Japan Credit Bureau)
UnionPay (China)
Alipay (China) via QR code
WeChat Pay (China) via QR code
@Em0nM4stodon well, the explanation of my father in law for one method: you needed to send some money to a relative in China, so you go to a jewelry store and give them money. They'd have a corresponding jewelry store in China that would release a corresponding amount to your relative. Alternatively, you want to get some money out of China, you'll do something similar. Each store has a balance sheet. At the end of the month, someone would fly to China "wearing" the balance in diamonds or returning wearing diamonds they didn't have when they didn't have in the first place.
How's that for low tech :)
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