PrichyFeb 10
Richard Littler
Does advertising really work?
Everyone I know mutes TV ads when they come on.
Everyone I know uses ad-blockers online.
I avoid sites that say 'You can't view this site unless you turn off your ad-blocker.'
And some ads are so annoying &/or repetitive that I refuse to use the product on principle.
Feb 10 at 8:45amWeb
Show threadGary Feb 10
@Richard_Littler I love how many of the 6music presenters take the piss out of the constant trails for BBC TV and radio shows they have to play, and the endless promotion of iPlayer.
Show threadAlien AnomalyFeb 10

@Richard_Littler

Yes. It does, but not if you don’t see it…obvs.

Show threadDansk404Feb 10
@Richard_Littler is it the old "self-sustaining business model" that the only people who believe advertising works either work in advertising or want to advertise something?
Show threadJules 🍺Feb 10
@Richard_Littler
I remember reading a book on effective marketing, they were of the opinion that word of mouth was way more effective than advertising, I've not seen anything that contradicts that since.
Show threadskribe 🇺🇦 Feb 10
@Richard_Littler @julesbl that's what social media marketing tried to tap into in the late noughties. It kinda worked for a while until the MBAs realised they could game the system with fake glowing appraisals and reviews.
Show threadBen CurthoysFeb 10

@Richard_Littler it's the "mere exposure" effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect

Mere-exposure effect - Wikipedia

Show thread⁂ Fish Id WardrobeFeb 10
@Richard_Littler there have been studies that conclude it does not. or: not much.
Show threadsuzanneFeb 11
@fishidwardrobe @Richard_Littler
I expect it's probably useful at getting your name and information out at the beginning of something. After that my bet is it's a waste of money.
Show threadBob ThomsonFeb 10
@Richard_Littler I suppose it’s like phishing attacks. Loads of attacks and a small number of results that make it worth it.
Show threadDominic 🇪🇺 🏳️‍🌈 🇺🇦Feb 10
@Richard_Littler Much like spam, I assume it must work at least sometimes or people wouldn’t do it. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a product based on a straight-up ad, but I will admit to being influenced by product placement: seeing something used by somebody cool or to do something cool will get me to at least check it out. What actually surprises me is that this channel is not *more* prevalent than it actually is.
Show threadConcretismFeb 10
@Richard_Littler Oh yeah, those 'turn off your ad blocker to view this site' messages are hilarious. I'm like 'Ok, fuck off then'.
Show threadGraham DownsFeb 10

@Richard_Littler It's got to do with the rule-of-thumb that a person needs to be exposed to a message 7 times before they take action. So if you see an add for a product, even without sound, and even for a split second before deliberately turning your attention, that's 1.

If you're browsing the web and you catch a banner ad for the same product, that's 2.

Reading an article and the author mentions that product in passing (even in a negative light)? That's 3.

Driving along the highway and see a billboard for that product, even if you don't consciously take note of it? That's 4.

In the supermarket and see that product stacked on the shelf? That's 5 -- but you're not ready to buy, yet.

On your way home, you turn on the radio and catch an ad for that product, but by that time you're so sick of hearing about it that you change the channel immediately? That's 6.

Turn on the TV and watch a YouTube video, and your ad-blocker fails momentarily and you see an ad for that product? That's 7, even though you spend all your time waiting for the "Skip" button to become enabled.

Something happens in your life that means you urgently need something like that product? Now that particular product is the first and perhaps ONLY one that sticks in your mind, it's cheap enough, and you need a solution urgently, so what do you do? You go out and buy that product.

Yes. Yes, it works. And it works to the *benefit* of the consumer, too. At least, as a consumer, that's what I've often found. :-)

Show threadRichard WebbFeb 10

@GrahamDowns @Richard_Littler

This is why hitting the x on offensive quack ads encourages more quack ads. More exposure, even though I feel more nauseous next time.

Show threadGraham DownsFeb 10

@Fasgadh @Richard_Littler Unconscious exposure is still exposure, and as they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity (within reason).

Unless you're previously committed to not patronising a particular company for principled, political, philosophical, or religious reasons. But then, it depends on exactly how strongly you feel. And you could still be swayed, even then. The marketers just need to work harder to convince you, is all.

"I'll NEVER buy anything from Amazon!"

Well, fair enough, but by definition, that means that Amazon is always prominent in your mind. If they continue to do the things that made you detest them, you will continue to be adamant in your decision. But if they start doing things which make you think, "Hey, they might actually be turning around," they could still win you back. Or if all of your friends start telling you how awesome they are, maybe you start gaslighting yourself into thinking they can't actually be that bad. Or you really really want a product and the only place to get it is on Amazon....

And even if not, if you're truly so hell-bent on Amazon, you're going to tell all your friends how terrible and evil they are and how you're never going to buy from them. But that puts them top of your *friends'* minds, which makes them more likely to buy from Amazon, if they don't feel quite so strongly as you do.

It's all deeply rooted in psychology and human nature.

Show threadSankaFeb 10
@GrahamDowns @Fasgadh @Richard_Littler I agree with most of your points but the last part doesnt really make sense to me. The part after you said hell bent. Shouldnt it be the other way around?
Show threadGraham DownsFeb 10

@Fasgadh @Richard_Littler @sanka_s it depends. When people get really passionate about a topic, it tends to be the only thing they talk about. And that can end up just being tiresome for people ("Oh, here comes the Amazon hater again!"). And then they might stop listening to the actual substance of what you're saying. Especially if they don't actually share your values, but would rather not tell you that because they don't want to encourage you.

In that case, all you end up doing is constantly reminding them that Amazon exists, potentially making them MORE likely to just buy from Amazon next time they need something. What's more, they might buy more from them than you ever would if you weren't boycotting them.

If they're totally with you, then of course it's another matter.

It's like the old joke, "How do you know someone's a vegan?"
"They tell you. [As frequently as possible]" 😆

I'm like that with Mastodon/the Fediverse. I think I've pissed off some of my friends so much that when they see me coming, they walk the other way; they just don't want to hear about Mastodon anymore....

Show threadSankaFeb 12

@GrahamDowns @Fasgadh @Richard_Littler

haha, okay I get it now. thanks for the explanation.

Yeah, I just discussed it yesterday with my friend how things can be rather "annoying" when someone is forcing something into you.

A bit different topic but the discussion was about religion, how its everyone's right to choose their own path, and forcing it into others is bad.

I think the best way is just to do it **really** patiently and nonchalantly. And to respect their own preferences.

Show threadSankaFeb 12

@GrahamDowns @Fasgadh @Richard_Littler but I still do believe the importance of *talking* about it the elephants in the room in a open discussion way.

Lets just hope that both they and us have ours ears open and listen to the reasonings.

Show threadGraham DownsFeb 16

@sanka_s @Fasgadh @Richard_Littler Yip. Religion is a tricky one, because people do get super passionate about it, and some religions (notably Christianity) actually explicitly require their adherents to go out and tell the world.

But you know what? There's productive and unproductive telling, and ramming your beliefs down someone's throat, constantly telling them that they're wrong, judging and condemning people, is very unproductive indeed, and I believe many people have been completely turned off religion because of it.

I'm a Christian, but what I've learnt is that it's not my job to make you believe, and that showing is better than telling. So yes, I'll mention to you that I'm a Christian (I just did), and then I'll just... be here, living my life, trying to live out my convictions as best I can -- and getting it wrong sometimes, because I'm human -- and just... making myself available.

I think that's far more useful than responding to every interaction by reminding you that I'm a Christian and telling you what (my opinion of) Christianity says about everything that you do and say to me, all the frickin time, without ceasing, when you never asked.

At some point, you're not going to want to associate with me anymore. Or worse: at some point, you're going to be so turned off the idea of Christianity/religion in general that you're going to turn into a militant atheist.

You're right, this is exactly the same as someone telling you at every opportunity why Amazon is bad, or why they're a vegan, or why Star Wars is better than Star Trek, despite the fact that the person you're telling strongly believes otherwise.... :-)

Show threadʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟFeb 10
@Richard_Littler I seem to remember it’s not about liking the thing or not, it’s knowing about it. Called something like exposure.
I remember one day, a big international company were signing a contract with where dad worked.
Dad’s place had advertised on billboards all round the pitch at a six nations match at, I presume, a fortune.
All this money aimed squarely at 4 business people in the stands on a bit of a jolly.
Show threadRichard WebbFeb 10

@Richard_Littler
Most of my ad burden is for things that I have no interest in or are for quacks.

Newspaper advertisers should know that I will not accept hundreds of cookies so I will never see their product.

Show threadDavid B. Feb 10
@Richard_Littler I remember songs from ads from 40 years ago. We like to say that ads don't work on us, but believe me, they do.
Show threadSue ArcherFeb 10

@David @Richard_Littler

They work if we buy the thing. I can sing the shake and vac song, but I've never bought the stuff in my life.

Also there are ads on tv that I remember every time they come up, but couldn't actually tell you what they are for. I just zone that out a lot of the time.

I'm an advertiser's nightmare. I buy more or less the same groceries every week, usually based on price. I buy almost all my clothes in charity shops. I hang onto tech as long as I can.

Show threadKimFeb 10
@suearcher @David @Richard_Littler See also: The Hammerite song. Though I've actually bought Hammerite on multiple occasions (admittedly not for musical reasons), and never yet seen a need for Shake and Vac.

Half the problem is that they're often chasing a metric like "we asked randomly-selected people to name 5 cleaning products" rather than actual sales, which are subject to all sorts of other factors.

All of which is just normal and ordinary and part of the way the world works. What really irks me is when you go to the manufacturer's website to find out about the new turbo-encabulator someone mentioned, it's full of touchscreen-oriented video bling, and completely lacking in detailed specifications. And retailers are no help, they’ll just lie to you to make the sale. "Well, I'm not buying that, I've no idea if it actually meets my encabulation needs."
Show threadMattFeb 10

@David @Richard_Littler MORTGAGE POINT! 745-94-94

(I will never forget their phone number)

Show threadPete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫Feb 10

@Richard_Littler
It's like email spam. 99.9% of it just annoys someone to no purpose, but occasionally it finds a mark to justify the small per-unit expense.

And there's a meta-level scam, which is selling advertising is profitable regardless of whether the advertising works, and selling personal data collected by delivering the ad is profitable regardless of whether the data is useful.

The enshittification is self-fuelling at that point.

Show threadDr. Michael HfuhruhurrFeb 10
@petealexharris @Richard_Littler Software developers, on the other hand, tend to be paid primarily in equity, which means that their work (and compensation) is only valuable if their employer manages to sell it. The boss makes money either way.
Show threadPatrick H. LaukeFeb 10
@Richard_Littler i shamefully admit that for a brief period where YouTube stopped working when my ad-blocker was running (the latter has since changed to avoid the detection), i was getting bombarded with ads all the time ... and while generally annoyed by them, i did end up buying one specific cheap gadget that one of those advertised. not proud of it. but yes the general principle still stands - advertising is shouting into the void for the most part
Show threadSimon dē Gulielmō 🐧Feb 10
@Richard_Littler I go by the principle that if you have to annoy people to sell your products, then the products must be shit.
Show threadRussellFeb 10

@Richard_Littler I've done screen sharing with coworkers and gotten screenshots from customers and watched various YouTubers do Internet searches ...... Most of them aren't using an ad blocker. Their brains reflexively close or filter out the noise and they assume that's just the way it has to be.

We here on Mastodon have a sample bias, an echo chamber, a filter bubble, or what have you.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Show threadThumptastic3Feb 10
@Richard_Littler It works on those who are hooked, addicted to our sick society. It's their heroine.
Show threadStoorydusterFeb 10
@Richard_Littler Effective Advertising can work. They provoke you (at a not inconvenient time), to make you look, provide a ‘hook’ that relates to something in you, and then an easy to perform call to action. But above all, good enough that you wouldn’t mind experiencing it again. That takes effort and skill and therefore there are nearly zero of that quality nowadays. A guy Dave Trott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Trott_(advertising_executive) runs a blog often bemoaning the failure of modern ad quality.
Dave Trott (advertising executive) - Wikipedia

Show threadFokeu🌸Feb 10
@Richard_Littler You underestimate how ignorant the average normie is. A lot of them aren't even using ad-block. They have their chrome on windows and consume every single ad the almighty tech overlords feed them lmao
Show threadBanu DewanggaFeb 10
@Richard_Littler That's a great point! It definitely feels like ads can be more of a nuisance than anything sometimes. Have you found any ads that actually caught your attention? I’m curious if there are any out there that break the mold!
Show threadMatthias Rex 🦣Feb 10
@Richard_Littler I almost spent 80 dollars on licorice after seeing ads over and over. I'm proud of myself for resisting, but also sad I didn't get a huge box of licorice in the mail.
Show threadCathyBikesBookFeb 10
@Richard_Littler I don't mute ads on TV, but I definitely skip ads on YouTube.
Show threadAndy Incarnate (He / Him)Feb 10
@Richard_Littler I don't really know. I watch a fair bit of CNN, amongst other things, they have lots of adverts for Turkish Airlines, Visit Dubai, Abu Dhabi... If advertising was all powerful I'd have thought I'd be slightly tempted, but I don't feel the need to book tickets to the Middle East. Oh, or start betting on the football, play online Bingo, buy a new sofa, a new car etc.....
Show threadCalamity Joan 😷Feb 10

@Richard_Littler

Did.. did *I* write this post..?

Show threadgnaddrigFeb 10
@clickhere @Richard_Littler
I thought *I* might have written it...
Show threadCalamity Joan 😷Feb 11
@gnaddrig @Richard_Littler It's too relatable.
Show threadEricFeb 10

@Richard_Littler

I love advertising! I bought a refrigerator online. Then I bought 18 more refrigerators because advertisements suggested I might also be interested in them!

Show threadJohn L. AlfordFeb 10
@Richard_Littler
When I move into a new area, I'll listen to all the local radio ads and subscribe to the newspaper (or whatever qualifies for local news). Those ads are usually for local businesses and how I find pet stores, plumbers, electricians, ...
Show threadGeofCoxFeb 10

@Richard_Littler

Advertising may not work on you Richard - but if it didn't work on most people, big business wouldn't be spending 1.4 trillion dollars on it every year.

Apart from being designed, obviously, to extract our hard-earned money from us, I think the most pernicious effects of advertising are:
1. It makes us unhappy. That's the whole point. It is fundamentally based on making us feel we'd be better, more attractive, popular, successful, etc, if only we buy this or that latest cosmetic, car, whatever; and
2. It shapes social expectations - it makes having new, more expensive things, holidays, etc, look and feel desirable, it associates happiness with wasteful consumerism, so we come to really believe that having a 'luxury lifestyle' - big house, fancy car, swimming pool, jet-setting, etc - is better than living contentedly in caring families, communities and the natural world.

Show threadIndependently BrokeFeb 10
@GeofCox I Can’t Get No Satisfaction- Rolling Stones. Still relevant after all these years.
Show threadWoozle HypertwinFeb 11

@GeofCox @Richard_Littler

I'm actually a teeny bit suspicious of the idea that it works as well as they think it does. Where's the science?

The types of people who make these decisions seem to me less like the kinds of people who would rigorously follow the evidence and more like the kinds of people who are most susceptible to advertising tactics (though perhaps a minority of people in general) and/or the types of people who would make sweetheart deals with advertisers that benefit themselves (and the advertiser) much more than the company they are advertising.

(Just a conspiracy theory; feel free to ignore me.)

Show threadJohnFeb 10

@Richard_Littler I'm hunting new apartments currently, (and therefore looking to sell mine.)

I simply will not go with any of the brokers who put their flyer into my clearly-marked "no junk mail" letterbox.

Show threadJaxxAIFeb 10
@Richard_Littler I think it's more about humans being desperate to be fashionable, following trends, fear of missing out and keeping up with the Joneses - this is what sells products to people. I think advertising is more about ensuring people have heard about the product, I'm not convinced it makes people buy. I've always tried to maintain awareness to control the effect on myself, taking a step back and asking, why am I buying this, do I really need it? Anyway, just my point of view.
Show threadhaui ☭ 🇵🇸Feb 10

@Richard_Littler advertising absolutely works. You're just more educated, privileged, opinionated, etc than other people. And you only know people who behave like you do.

Go to a union meetup and ask actual trade workers how much time and mental capatity they have to spare to manage all the shit that gets thrown at them. We dont live in meritocracy but a caste system, carefully divided.

I come from this life. I'm a class traitor but I try to make up for it by helping to change the world.

Show threadsunflowerinrainFeb 10
@Richard_Littler
That's me, usually. There's one kind of advert that makes me have sympathy for other brainwashed fools, though: adverts for household cleaning gadgets. I loathe housework so I'm a sucker for things that promise to do it for you. The rest, though... I couldn't even tell you what most tv/online ads are pushing.
Show threadAndrocatFeb 10

@Richard_Littler Yet, we are led to believe, a CEO's LinkedIn ravings can be responsible (tm) for up to 50% of revenue...

And if you believe that, I have a cross-atlantic bridge to sell you.

Show threadZeke 🇨🇦Feb 10
@Richard_Littler If I am watching a few minutes of the Olympic Games , for instance, I will immediately leave the coverage when a commercial comes on and go to another channel. I find that the commercial breaks are lengthy and often. Actually it feels like the segments of the coverage is less than that of the ad breaks. 🤨
Show threadFairness4AllFeb 10
@Richard_Littler It still works. My setup blocks most but not all ads, and I'm still susceptible. I consider myself a tech savvy person but 75% other people aren't that tech savvy or dgaf about privacy.
Show threadRaymondFeb 10

@Richard_Littler Advertisers are meant to target average people, not educated ones.

The spy cam pop-unders worked, otherwise they would have stopped quite early, as opposed to browsers having to develop a system that prevents popups.

Show threadBob K Mertz Feb 10
@Richard_Littler
Propaganda works because most people think it would never affect them... Advertising is no different.
Show threadGerard Cunningham ✒️Feb 10
@Richard_Littler
First, not everyone does those things.
Second, what happens when you hit an ad break on radio? When there's product placement in TV shows/movies? When your football team splashes a corporate sponsor across their kit? When you pass a billboard on the street? It's a cumulative effect.
Show threadCleethorpes Info Bot   Feb 11
@Richard_Littler I record programmes on non-BBC channels so I can skip the ads, and watch the BBC ones. People moan about the BBC licence fee, but we're all paying for ITV with a surcharge on products to cover advertising costs. I listen to BBC radio too because adverts are so bloody annoying!
Show threadMike MorrisFeb 11
@Richard_Littler Yes. Indeed, it's been shown to work best on people who think it doesn't work on them.
Show threadFilomelFeb 11

@Richard_Littler That's what I used to think. Then I got to know people outside of the IT circles and realized how big of a gulf that was. People who refuse to install an adblocker because it's "too complicated" despite me showing it's just two clicks. They power through ads rather than complicate things.

Then there's people who don't know adblockers exist or that you'd want one.

Then there's people who actually *enjoy* ads.

We are the minority. Ads may not work for us, but everyone else.