Accidental Tech Podcast656: A Long T-Shirt
https://atp.fm/656
The iPhone event! Reactions and analysis of the iPhone 17, 17 Pro, and Air; the Apple Watch Series 11, SE 3, and Ultra 3; and the AirPods Pro 3.
Christian Kent đđ :ïč„@atpfm was it âiconicâ or âtotemicâ? I might have misheard, it was 4am here
g_hill@atpfm Couldn't help but think the Jobs quote was the marketing guy's doing, or at least he approved it. He has shown utter contempt for the fans who voice genuine concern. (See also: he said on the Talk Show at WWDC 2022 that the sentiment that Apple didn't care about the Mac in the 2010s was "repugnant.")
@atpfm Intrested to hear if youâll find the new heart rate monitoring in the AirPods Pro 3 to work well during adult workout. As we get older, itâs good to actively monitor those vitals.
Jimmy
John Siracusa@jimmy Security badges on a neck strap, too! Itâs a well-worn media trope.
@siracusa i completely agree, it just amused me to think of you testing the strength of necklace clasps!
@atpfm for battery comparison between models using a standardised test, you can look at the EU energy labels for the iPhones found on the Irish Apple website (and likely other EU Apple sites) just above the footers by clicking on the rating image. 1/3
@atpfm also, the product information sheet that accompanies the energy certificate gives a standardised measure of the screen scratch resistance.
General link: https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/energylabels
iPhone 17 Pro specific product information sheet link: https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/cwt/api/ext/file?fileId=energyLabels/A3523_V1/A3523/A3523_Product_Information_Sheet_EN_EU.pdf
See pages 10 & 11 of this pdf for the standard battery methodology that is used for this energy label: https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/cwt/api/ext/file?fileId=whitePaperEnergyLabels%2FEU_Energy_Label_for_iPhone_and_iPad_EN_1749628569689.pdf
2/3
@atpfm The specifics for comparison are:
Battery: "endurance duration" (capacity)
- Air: 40h (3149 mAh)
- 17: 41h (3692 mAh)
- 17 Pro: 47h (4252 mAh)
- 17 Pro Max: 53h (5088 mAh)
- 16 (2024): 37h (3561 mAh)
Scratch resistance (Mohs hardness)
- Air: 5
- 17: 5
- 17 Pro: 5
- 17 Pro Max: 5
- 16 (2024): 4
Workload (see attached image) is different to Apple's historic battery metrics from their website, hence the different numbers, but this one will be comparable between generations
3/3
Sean Harding@atpfm I think you guys are too easy on Apple with respect to how they talk about the cameras. "Optical quality" and using the term "lens" for digital zoom ratios is veering *very* close to deceptive, IMHO. As nerds we can read between the lines, but normal people won't.
Matt Killmon@sharding @atpfm @marcoarment On the other hand, normal people are the ones pinch-to-zooming in the Camera app to 20x and taking "photos" that are a blurry, pixelated mess, and have been for more than a decade, so⊠it might be argued that nerds are the only ones who care.
David Cohen@stillmoms @sharding @atpfm @marcoarment This. If people like the pictures they take, who gives a damn about the specs used to take them.
yertle@davidbcohen @stillmoms @sharding @atpfm @marcoarment so specs can just be gibberish as long as the device works? Thatâs not a good take. But I think theyâre trying to say itâs not a digital zoom, which seems fair? But it does seem gray - how do SLR makers define how an APS-C crop works on a full frame?
@yertle @stillmoms @sharding @atpfm @marcoarment Thatâs a hyperbolic take on what I said - obviously there has to be *some* rational substance behind their improvement claims.
But the second half of your reply proves the point - these cameras are so different in how they work compared to conventional cameras that direct comparisons are hard to make, and may not be meaningful. APS-C and glass wonât fit in your pocket either - different tools for different needs.
Niek van de Pas
Jeremy Kanter@niekvdpas Past 5x, your 16 Pro is getting to 12 MP by upscaling. Not too different than taking a small image into Photoshop and using âimage sizeâ to make it larger.
With the new 48 MP sensor, the 4x lens is able to capture a 12 MP image at 8x just by using the pixels in the center. In other words, cropping rather than scaling.
@niekvdpas In other words, your 16 Pro is making up pixels, while the 17 Pro is actually capturing them. The 17 Proâs image is going to look a lot better. (And thatâs before we even get to the fact that the 17 Pro has a physically larger sensor.)
(Also worth noting that this is also how the 48 MP 1x/2x lens has worked for the last few generations.)
Stuart McHattie đšđŒâđ»@niekvdpas @sharding @atpfm the 8x at 12MP on your 16 Pro is the 5x camera with a 12MP sensor using software to effectively expand the pixels in the middle of the image back up to 12MP. Itâs inventing the values of some of the pixels because there simply werenât enough sensor pixels to capture 12MP at that resolution.
In contrast, the 17 Pro has a 48MP sensor behind that 4x camera. This allows them to ignore the outer 36MP of the sensor; take a crop from the central 12MP and get an 8x image where every pixel in the photo was given data from a real sensor pixel. This is far better quality at 8x than your 16 Pro can do.
@sharding @atpfm Iâm a bit torn on this. If a device has a separate 12mp 2Ă and 48mp 1Ă camera, then even if the sensors were technically identical (same pixel pitch), it definitely has two cameras.
I think where they are misleading is they do not emphasise the *sensor size* differences for each âlensâ.
Andy Norman@emi_dubyu @sharding @atpfm it is right there on screen when they announced it, it isnât like they were hiding the 12MP crop. In fact they list it before the zoom level
@andynormancx @sharding @atpfm Where does that note the physical equivalent sensor size? Itâs alluded to with the pixel pitch, but not clearly stated.
@emi_dubyu @sharding @atpfm I read it that your complaint was they weren't calling out that the second âlensâ was only 12mp, you'd said that if a phone had two sensors at the pixel pitch theyâd still be sensors. And the two modes of the telephoto are at the same pitch.
I'm also not sure how I feel about them leaning on them being different cameras/lenses. Although to normal people I expect they'll perform as if you had two different lenses/sensors (unless there are actual lens limitations)
@andynormancx @sharding @atpfm
I wish the standard was to list sensor sizes with metric dimensions. Or at least a metric diagonal. As a European I hate the fractional inches.
In the case of the iPhone, that would make the 4Ă sensor something like 10 by 7.5mm and the 8Ă would be a equivalent to a quarter of that area, 5 by 3.75mm.
QuarterSwede
Lee@atpfm As far as the satellite usage requirementsâŠit could be the cellular companies that are making it a requirement. They wouldnât want peeps using the watch with satellite only and just using texting features.
Blaze Sanders@atpfm Seeiny that a lot of women seem to like the blander colors https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT6Tarn4C/
Ayo^@atpfm I heard @siracusa talking about his phoneâs storage situation. I wonder how much "System Data" takes up all of your phonesâ storage? I have a 128 GB iPhone, and at one point "System Data" was taking over 55 GB, and after trying every trick I could find on the internet (time, sync, reboot), I had to restore the whole phone. (1/2)
@marcoarment mentioned in a previous show that Apple seems to be developing software on the assumption of abundance: everyone has a Mac to themselves, and everyone has a 1TB iPhone, right? Right? đ«€ (2/2)
sayrer@atpfm somewhat gradual incline and large surface area, so could be a "plateau". I think the real reason is that "mesa" is too catchy, and they don't want people to talk about it.
@atpfm Iâm on public transport right now and can see two iPhones running the betas. Never seen betas âin the wildâ before this year.
@nickbatchelor Or maybe you did, but didnât realize it when they were betas that didnât look as different as iOS 26 does.
Phoenix Horton@atpfm I think the iPhone air is just the pre-cursor R&D for the future flip phone, they had to get all those components slimed down anyways might as well sell a phone with them.
@atpfm @caseyliss just heard the part about the weight balance. I can't remember where I heard it, but they do study this, and make sure to keep it even. Meaning, it is part of their design process.
Jake Bowling@atpfm regular 17 probably the best balance of small(ish)/light(ish) and features for me. iPhone pro mini (or air mini?) remains the dream phone.
@atpfm @siracusa I bet it was shot at 120. Cleanly divided to 24, 30, and 60. I know people that work at ESPN and things like that. They say you can shoot on an iPhone for the visuals, but not for the sound. So, you need a bunch of gear anyway. Might as well use a better camera if you're in that predicament.
Thom Bullock@atpfm thoughts as I listen along (I've not finished, apologies if you address this later).
Firstly, I've worked internationally and currently work in an area with a large number of English as a second language speakers.
Having live translation in your ears requires a huge amount of trust in the translation being accurate. I find that with Google translate the other speaker in a conversation will occasionally see their own language transcription is inaccurate and correct it, even before the translation process (itself not always reliable).
Taking this visual cue away mean the other person will not know if they were understood correctly before they're translated. Honestly I don't trust the Siri company to get this bit right, regardless of what they then translate.
Secondly, regarding blood pressure monitoring. My watch currently offers this, but I rarely use it. Without the ability to directly apply pressure, it relies on frequent calibration with a 'real' blood pressure cuff. I've occasionally calibrated my watch when I've been to the docs/hospital but rarely check after that. If I needed to check my blood pressure regularly I would have to buy a cuff to calibrate my watch - and would probably just end up using the cuff anyway as it's more reliable.
Until Apple can find a way to measure blood pressure without relying on an external calibration, I can't see them trying to add it to the watch.
Andrew White@atpfm On the subject of the accuracy of Apple Watch heart rate monitoring: I am currently in cardiac rehab. When I track my workouts my watch is usually in agreement with the tools the kinesiologists use to track my heart rate. If it's not, it's one-or-two beats out.
Eric deRuiter@atpfm If Musk isnât boring how did he found The Boring Company? đ
Warren TenBrook@atpfm Regarding the âitâs how it worksâ Jobs quote, Iâve heard some maintain they were leaning on *hardware* design and had little to say about software like liquid glass, Siri, Apple Intelligence. Since yâall at @atpfm are developers, your natural focus is on *software* design and incredulous Apple would use the quote. I see Apple side-stepping the principle that good design is hardware and software integrated together.
FreediverX@wktenbrook @atpfm
Yet another sign that Apple has abandoned software design as a differentiating factor and competitive advantage, treating it more like a cost center.
Yet another sign that Apple has abandoned software design as a differentiating factor and competitive advantage, treating it more like a cost center.
Eric Smalling 
@wktenbrook @atpfm agreed. Given that the entire hour+ afterward repeated the hardware design platitudes, it didnât even occur to me that they might be referencing liquid glass
Jonathan Broadbent@atpfm re your comments about âdesign is not just how it looks, itâs how it worksâ : did you consider that it was NOT about liquid glass but about the hardware ? That what is new in, say, the iPhone Air is not just how it looks but is crucially all the new Apple silicon, materials etc that allow it to look the way it does ? With that reading, the quote makes complete sense.
@freediverx @atpfm eg For the air âhow it looksâit needs to draw less power and use as much space as possible for battery; that requires apple silicon a19pro c1x and n1, square selfie sensor etc all stuffed in plateau at top , the âhow it worksâ.
@aijcb @atpfm
Jobsâ quote was another way of saying form should follow functionâa concept neither Ive nor Dye seemed to fully embrace.
Apple products were always beautiful, but more importantly they were very easy to use and accomplished more with less.
Todayâs Apple is more focused on superficial novelty while making everything harder for end users, unless they willingly accept the computerâs transformation from âa bicycle for the mindâ to a La-Z-Boy chair for passive content consumption.
@aijcb @atpfm
For the iPhone Air, the result was a thinner phone. Nice engineering feat and maybe attractive to some customers, but that doesnât make it easier to use or more capable of accomplishing tasks.
Thin and light had far greater impact back when computers were all bulky and heavy. Now itâs just aesthetics and braggadocio.
The greatest opportunities now lie with software, while Apple is doubling down on hardware.
@atpfm
The lack of a black model means Iâm not buying one this year either.
The lack of a black model means Iâm not buying one this year either.
@atpfm the magsafe does have a type-C port, it can also charge other things using USB-C
Michael Brown@atpfm Iâm surprised you didnât mention Molly Andersonâs voice over in the 17 Pro intro video channeling Jony Ive. It was uncanny.
Sheâs British, so of course sheâs going to say âaluminiumâ, but the intonation, accent and even the way she stressed certain words was so Jony Ive.
Sheâs British, so of course sheâs going to say âaluminiumâ, but the intonation, accent and even the way she stressed certain words was so Jony Ive.
Justin Waring đ@atpfm A U.S. nickel is 5 grams. So 12 g is between 2 and 3 nickels in your pocket.
Jay@atpfm Looks like the iPhone Air MagSafe battery does have a USB-C port that can charge smaller accessories.
https://www.macrumors.com/2025/09/11/iphone-air-magsafe-battery-usb-c-charging/
Pedro Fernandes@atpfm I don't agree that the regular SIM card is such a dinosaur. When moving to my 16 Pro Max my eSIM did not transfer automatically. I had to go to a physical store and had no service for about 4 hours. If you are traveling, or in some kind of adventure, and your phone breaks, with a good old SIM card you can just pop it into another phone. They should look into ways to improve the SIM card functionalities given that storage has become so cheap... lots of opportunities.
Hadi Turk@haditurk Not intentionally.
Frytech@atpfm Iâm perplexed why you guys didnât say a word that #Apple still continues their absolute BS USB2.0 speeds from literally the year 2000 in all non-Pro phones!
How come you care about 120hz on #iPhone17 but not about the fact that it takes literally 20 times longer to transfer files?!
5 minutes vs 1.5+ hours!
And Airdrop is still way slower and less reliable than the cable btw!
Whyâs nobody calling Apple out on this absolute nonsense now that theyâre using USB-C!
@frytech Already in Follow-Up for the next episode!
@siracusa Nice, canât wait!
I sincerely hope we can all collectively pressure Apple to at least give us the USB speeds from the year â checks notes:
1. 2008 â 5Gbit/s, (USB3.0)
2. 2013 â 10Gbit/s (USB3.1)
3. 2017 â 20Gbit/s (USB3.2)
4. 2019 â 40Gbit/s (USB4)
5. 2022 â 80Gbit/s (USB4v2)
đ€Šđ»ââïžđ«
Anything over current year 2000 - 0.48Gbit/s (USB2.0) will be an improvementđ
Derek Ledbetter@atpfm MacBreak Weekly called their recent episode âOrange Is the New Blackâ, so itâs good you didnât use that!