A reminder: The reason so many firms on their websites constantly urge you to install and use their apps instead of their websites is that the apps typically give them access to VASTLY more data about you and your activities. Don't fall for it.

@lauren

The digital, cloud, and #AttentionEconomy fueled by iPhones and ZIRP is not an optimal system, rather it’s resource-intensive, wasteful, and full of dark design patterns.

@lauren Even the Red Cross. I gave blood yesterday and they intake person asked me (as he has on past visits) if I'd like to use the app instead of always using the web site to set up appointments. They've already got extremely intimate information about me and they still want more!

@joelvanderwerf @lauren
It's a colonisation : colonisation-2_0
Extraterritoriale,
Immaterial rather than material
Subservience rather than appropriation
And a few other specifics...

For more details, there are plenty of articles here :

"La colonisation-2_0 : Panorama et parcours dans les articles de CRIs"
Article : 11 novembre 2023 : Les CRIs.

https://www.les-cris.com/pages-110-au-fil-du-temps/les-ponctuels-2023/cri-afdt-ponctuel-231111-La-colonisation-2_0-Panorama-et-parcours-dans-les-articles-de-CRIs-point-d-entree-de-lecture-des-articles-de-CRIs.php

Sorry it's in french.
=> translator.
It's in CC By-SA ... free to use, .... free to translate and publish...

With the VSA :
Open your eyes about the colonisation-2_0, ... because it (colonisation-2_0), it will still keep an eye on you.

Les CRIs : La colonisation-2_0 : Panorama et parcours dans les articles de CRIs.

Les-CRIs.com : des Constat-Reflexion-Impulsion (CRI) : publication d'articles, et animation de reflexion. Tous domaines, quand j'aime. L'évolutions de la société, l'argent, l'agricole, les institutions, le Kravail, l'énergie, le commerce, le numérique,... la nouvelle civilisation.

Les-CRIs
@lauren @rye Also more often than not those apps are just loading the same website in a webview and are much worse than just using the website in your mobile browser (that hopefully has an ad-blocker).
@gollyhatch @rye There are some firms that have an actual mobile app for phones but on tablets it's a wrapper around the Web app.
@gollyhatch @rye I wouldn't say more often than not. They really want to use native apps because it gives them much deeper permissions access.
@lauren @rye It can be both, a native app (with all its spying possibilities) that still simply loads the website instead of having an actual native UI.
@gollyhatch @rye It's usually more difficult, since Webview can introduce its own limitations.

@lauren This is why when I have to use Facebook it's in a browser.

In a virtual machine.

Pluralistic: The disenshittified internet starts with loyal “user agents” (07 May 2024) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

Yeah, exactly why I don't install the apps unless I absolutely have to. Not to mention, every new app is a new potential security hole.

@lauren

@lauren
So true, eBay was offering 10€ the other day to install their app, I'm sure it was them being charitable.
@lauren Also, you can Do what you Want with your own browser. But to alter their app is a Crime. Cf: DMCA section 1201

@lauren happily, I'm a grumpy old man who doesn't see the need for an app for everything so I may have already dodged a few bullets 👍🏻

Stay cynical, folks

@lauren Worked in the industry. Can confirm. It's the usage data and the push notifications to continually get you to engage.
@mayintoronto @lauren
What usage data can they get from an app that they can't get from a website (assuming one is logged in to their site)? Are they able to see other things that I'm doing on my phone, or do location tracking (but only if I give permission), etc.?

@PeterLudemann So you know how your browser has options to block ads and trackers? Yeah, none of that stuff exists on apps without more interventions at the device and the router level.

For most apps, they don't care about any of that stuff. They can curate a better user experience (so you buy more of their shit) on an app.

The ones you need to worry about are the ones that make money off ads, since your data is what's valuable. If you're on the same wifi as someone at the same time, and they look up something you were talking about, you'll get ads for the same thing. It's not necessarily the microphone.

Here's one such issue. https://www.cbc.ca/news/marketplace/mobile-games-kids-data-privacy-1.7476587

@lauren

Hey, parents: Advertisers could be using mobile games to build profiles about your kids | CBC News

A Marketplace investigation has pulled back the curtain on how some mobile games, which seem to attract children, use loopholes in rules protecting kids’ data — allowing marketers to build advertising profiles tailored to them, which can then be more effective at influencing their behaviour.

CBC

@lauren I'm noticing logging in to bank accounts online is getting more convoluted. Are they doing it to reduce the risk of fraud, or is it to push more folk into downloading apps?

How long before we realise the risks we're running in being so reliant on technology for running our lives. I predict we'll be back to only using coins and notes at some point...

@Cyclist Not sure what you mean by "convoluted" in this case. At a minimum, financial institutions should require 2-factor authentication and related browser/device identification protocols.

@lauren @Cyclist

I have seen my bank putting interstitial ads between the password challenge and viewing my account.

This is just not a thing that should happen. I don't want anything unpredictable happening when I'm trying to access my account.

@TerryHancock I would change banks. I don’t get any games like that from my local savings bank.
@Cyclist @lauren step 1 : ask your bank how you van connect without a smartphone
Step 2 : move to another bank (me 3 years ago)
@lauren good PSA. i haven't investigated options to squelch it all with 1blocker on my mobile devices because that Reddit one is dumb as hell even if you have the fscking app installed it takes you to the app store. morons.
@lauren Thank you for saying this! I have often said that apps are just web browsers that are limited to one site. I would rather have a web browser that can go to many sites.
@jackyan @lauren apps are also covered by digital lock legislation, so technically, it's illegal to block ads in an app.

@lauren No, No, No!

I've lost phones, I've never lost my home (or work) computer.

@lauren

I recently came across this is at the beginning of a survey ... can't remember who or what is was for .. just grabbed this shot and quickly left ...

@MyView @lauren Only 226? They are unpopular! I’ve seen it in the thousands regularly.

@lauren maybe companies like eBay and stuff... but a pizza place in rural Pennsylvania?

"Download our aaaaaaaaaapp!" Is shorthand for "we don't know how to write a non-shite mobile-friendly website so we'll pay some Chinese kid to build an aaaaaaaaapp!!"

#fuckyourapp

@lauren it's hard if companies like LinkedIn make their mobile website (assumably on purpose) as bad as it was developed in 1999.

@lauren

I don't have any apps I don't absolutely need for this very reason. Websites are bad enough. They become more and more intrusive every day. But apps might as well be someone in the room with you.
Thank you for the warning! 😊☮️

@lauren The worst is when they make their mobile websites entirely useless by making every link a redirect to download their app... (looking at you, Yelp)
@lauren @introvertnudist Sometimes the apps are more accessible than the sites; I'll keep using wherethat's the case.
@lauren To what extent holds this true when the user rejects any permission an app requests, such as location, camera, microphone, your contacts, storage etc? And if the app refuses to work when rejecting permissions, without a reasonable reason, I uninstall the app.
@martinrust There are still some fundamental permissions that are always granted, and the permissions models have changed significantly in major ways as Android versions have changed over time.
@lauren I'd be happy if someone elaborate on that, or links an article that does.
@lauren Another aspect of that question: the privacy conformance of web sites depends on the privacy conformance of the browser it runs on. Not all browsers might be the same privacy-protective over time. After all, browsers technically are just apps.
@martinrust You can say the same thing about apps, especially in the Android space, where there are vast numbers of different devices running different Android versions and update levels, many with different permission models and more.

@martinrust @lauren

It depends whether the user has realised they need to go deep into their Android phone settings and disable the advertising ID.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/05/how-disable-ad-id-tracking-ios-and-android-and-why-you-should-do-it-now

(and whether the web browser they would use instead is still enthusiastically allowing every single third-party cookie, like Google Chrome)

How to Disable Ad ID Tracking on iOS and Android, and Why You Should Do It Now

The ad identifier - aka “IDFA” on iOS, or “AAID” on Android - is the key that enables most third-party tracking on mobile devices. Disabling it will make it substantially harder for advertisers and data brokers to track and profile you, and will limit the amount of your personal information up for...

Electronic Frontier Foundation
@sourcejedi @martinrust Largely a useless exercise. That ID is only a tiny issue in the scheme of things.
@lauren Imagine if we all insisted that companies ran code we control on their systems to do business with us?
@DavyJones @lauren I'm curious what'd happen if we didn't cut off a
permissions but instead changed what data the app gets, essentially lie to them and poison the data well

@lauren

If you use android, [not iPhone]

Add the duckduckgo browser,
(we have all uses their browser search eh?)

It blocks apps background 24/7 from communicating with their home based OR others bases!

Note: it gives you a total of blocks MINE has been 84,000+ in 7 days what's yours?

So it Seems it does a really good job too!

@lauren
@joelvanderwerf @lauren

Open your eyes about the colonisation-2_0, ... because it (colonisation-2_0), it will still keep an eye on you.

With the VSA (Video Surveillance Algorythmique)...

It's a colonisation : colonisation-2_0

Extraterritoriale,

Immaterial rather than material

Subservience rather than appropriation

And a few other specifics...

For more details, there are plenty of articles here :

"La colonisation-2_0 : Panorama et parcours dans les articles de CRIs"
Article : 11 novembre 2023 : Les CRIs.

https://www.les-cris.com/pages-110-au-fil-du-temps/les-ponctuels-2023/cri-afdt-ponctuel-231111-La-colonisation-2_0-Panorama-et-parcours-dans-les-articles-de-CRIs-point-d-entree-de-lecture-des-articles-de-CRIs.php

Sorry it's in french.
=> translator.
It's in CC By-SA ... free to use, .... free to translate and publish...

Les CRIs : La colonisation-2_0 : Panorama et parcours dans les articles de CRIs.

Les-CRIs.com : des Constat-Reflexion-Impulsion (CRI) : publication d'articles, et animation de reflexion. Tous domaines, quand j'aime. L'évolutions de la société, l'argent, l'agricole, les institutions, le Kravail, l'énergie, le commerce, le numérique,... la nouvelle civilisation.

Les-CRIs

@lauren

Even the Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) of the UK ETA works like this (resp. the desktop version doesn't)

@lauren
too bad if there is no mobile-friendly website or no website at all that offers the required functions.

@taketwo
Exactly. This is why I hate https://www.easypark.com passionately.

@lauren

EasyPark – Make space for life

Get EasyPark – the No.1 parking app in Europe

@lauren it’s also because direct traffic from the app is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than paying for PPC. Organic website traffic is pretty much dead even for big companies these days so any opportunity to get free traffic is worth it for them. Obviously the extra data is a nice perk too!
@lauren I should clarify, the goal is probably different for say e-commerce apps (travel, shopping etc) compared to social media (LinkedIn, Facebook etc). However both love having their icon on your home screen and the ability to send you push notifications!

@lauren it is one reason and a bad enough one to be singled out, but not the only reason.

A website, especially on the small screen of a mobile can be difficult to use and is one among possibly thousands of bookmarks. An app better integrates with the OS and once installed might see some more "sticky" usage.

But that is design dependent, you could have more PWA oriented mobiles. The broader question to reflect is the incentives generated by the designs and choices of gatekeeping platforms.

@lauren apps are a backdoor into your phone, that is why they want it...
@lauren I really don’t like apps all over my phone either, and rarely ever choose app over web site, the exception I’ve made being Tesco and Asda as they do make it easier to get the best deals when shopping.
@lauren easier said than done in many cases. Websites just don't seem as easy to access the same info as an app sometimes. I am not particularly tech minded either, that's not to say I am not aware of technofeudalism. So keeping many ignorant is part of there plan.

@lauren Half the time I can't see the point in an app.

Why would I want to clutter up my my app screen just to be bombarded with notifications from burger king, and why would I need faster access to burger king than opening up their website in a browser?