Rob Johnson
Austin Kocher, PhD 🌎For me at least, getting onto @Mastodon and appreciating the structure of the platform and the tone of conversation has made these other pop-up social networks (Twitter replacements) totally unattractive. No, I don’t want to move up on a wait list by “referring 5 friends”; no, I don’t want to be part of another Jack Dorsey project; no, I don’t want to be part of something with weird completely top-down control. Mastodon broke me for other platforms.
AndrewBC@austinkocher it's so pleasant
starrwulfeIs it wrong for me to be humming the last part of your post to the tune of “No Scrubs” by TLC?
No I don't want your number/No I don't wanna give you mine
No I don't need you to take me nowhere and/No I don't need none of your timeeeee
No I don't need no scrubs/a scrub is a guy who can't get no love from me/hanging out the side of his best friend's ride/trying to holla at meYeah, those lyrics describe what those Twitter also-rans seem like to me.
Fabion 📚@austinkocher @Mastodon you have a point there
Johnathan 🏴@austinkocher @Mastodon yep. I’m still struggling to find niche content that I used Twitter a lot for (my local sports team as an example) but I’m delighted at the general tone of the conversation so it’s something I’m willing to wait for.
tredstone@johnathan @austinkocher @Mastodon agreed. It feels like a place full of possibilities… something I was definitely not feeling on twitter lately lol
Michael J. Orlando@austinkocher @Mastodon Agreed. The federated design - w/ content & server censoring decentralized - seems to confer rights w/ some (socially) healthy reputational risks.
Trick will be how to achieve balanced growth among servers, all the while adding new servers. Doing so may become a challenge as bigger servers find ways capitalize on network effects in competition for new users.
I know - not a problem now, but may become so as revenue models emerge and to extent they drive server success.
Pittthewelder
AThinkingGirl 🌈 ally 📚@austinkocher you have articulated my thoughts exactly.
Ken Dillermand
bignoseA relevant wider point, eloquently expressed by @mmasnick:
“[T]here’s a lot of fun and interesting development going on none of which relies on a big centralized, VC backed social media company. While those are rushing in to try to fill the void… I’m kinda wondering why would anyone invest in building up a social graph and content on one of those?”
Why Would Anyone Use Another Centralized Social Media Service After This?
So, it’s been quite a year for legacy, centralized social media — and all without any really big change to the laws that govern it (yet — the EU’s are coming into force shortly, but pos…
*The* Paul BrownMaybe it is the other way around. Maybe the other platforms were broken and the truly social, community-controlled network which is Mastodon (and the Fediverse at large) is what social media should've been like all along.
Mark W. Alexander@Bro666 @austinkocher @Mastodon
The web was designed to be decentralized.
#CorporateGreed carved it into walled gardens.
None of those gardens are attractive anymore. Anyone with an IP address can run their own [whatever], housing (and protecting) their own data.
We can build the #SmallWeb
What is the Small Web?
Updated June 19th, 2023 Sorry, your browser doesn't support embedded videos. But that doesn’t mean you can’t watch it! You can download Small Is Beautiful #23 directly, and watch it with your favourite video player. Small Is Beautiful (Oct, 2022): What is the Small Web and why do we need it? Today, I want to introduce you to a concept – and a vision for the future of our species in the digital and networked age – that I’ve spoken about for a while but never specifically written about:
BWS@austinkocher @Mastodon l was let into Post (without referring), but my initial interest has waned while my use and enjoyment of Mastodon has grown. Will prob kill the Post account, and my twit account at some point (tho my twit experience over past month hasn't really changed 🤷🏻♂️), as Mastodon grows.
Not sure why I don't find Post a suitable replacement, but Mastodon to me is the much more twit like experience.
YMMV
ElsiB@austinkocher @Mastodon Absolutely, all the good qualities and none of the anger/outrage/hate of that other place, it's been a real eye-opener for me, a pleasure to find such good people talking together. Algorithms have a lot to answer for🤔
Nancy M Ruff
David@austinkocher @Mastodon It is the tone and culture that wins. Feels like real people - not the drama seeking outraged outliers that are becoming the norm elsewhere.
Majestic_Sloth@austinkocher @Mastodon I never realized how much time I lost doom-scrolling on Twitter, not out of enjoyment but because it was just neverending. It played around with my anxiety, driving me to try and get to the "beginning" of the conversation, a constant feel of if I keep scrolling I'll find the answer, or the origin point. It's hard to explain what I was even looking for, but I feel so much less harried on Mastodon.
@austinkocher @Mastodon The irony for me is that Jack says that Twitter should belong to no-one and be like an API ... and Mastodon seems to be very much in harmony with that vision. Far more so than any other proposed Twitter alternative that I'm aware of.
Jakub Kornatowski
Mayhawke@austinkocher Got to agree. Been here two days, and feels like stepping out of a cave into sunshine on the first day of spring. I find I'm engaging with it more already.
@austinkocher @Mastodon I can only second this. I was totally inactive lately on Twitter. Now I feel alive again last for last 3 days I’m here. It’s crazy how much goodness is in the community there ♥️
Andrew Singleton@austinkocher Excuse me what? 'Move up in the wait list by referring people' Pffft What's the name of that network 'totallynotascam.com'?
E. Chang@singletona @austinkocher It's even worse. The push is to get a lot of the journalism community to use the service. Posts can be long-form and have an option to "tip" the author via a microtransaction. When the service is out of beta testing, creators will be able to charge to view their posts.
I'm 100% in favor of content creators being compensated for their efforts, but I absolutely do not want a major corporate social media platform to have access to my credit card information.
Cassandra -2024@austinkocher @Mastodon
I don't think anyone expected Twitter to implode as quickly as it has. It feels like a now or never situation. I think that by the time these newer platforms become widely accessible, most people will already be using Mastadon and will be reluctant to leave.
I don't think anyone expected Twitter to implode as quickly as it has. It feels like a now or never situation. I think that by the time these newer platforms become widely accessible, most people will already be using Mastadon and will be reluctant to leave.
tolortslubor@austinkocher @Mastodon No, I don’t want to be spammed by crypto robots.
No, I don’t want to see ads for BS from criminal corporations.
No, I don’t want to scroll through a feed filled with posts from ignorant bigots.
Yes, I like #Mastodon #mastodonsocial #Mastodonmigration #twitterexodus #Fediverse
No, I don’t want to see ads for BS from criminal corporations.
No, I don’t want to scroll through a feed filled with posts from ignorant bigots.
Yes, I like #Mastodon #mastodonsocial #Mastodonmigration #twitterexodus #Fediverse
Simon Ringsmuth@austinkocher I've been impressed with Mastadon so far. I have tried out a few other up-and-coming social networks but this one seems a lot more polished.
Eirliani A Rahman@austinkocher @Mastodon Austin, I hear you. For someone who resigned from #Twitter's Council, it has been bittersweet leaving the bird app. But I'm very happy here on #Mastodon. Good peeps and such a healthy climate. Good for our collective #MentalHealth.
I'm curious to see how this decentralized #fediverse develops further. Props to all the amazing #moderators!
Horst Albermann 🇪🇺🇩🇪@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon Yes, the whole thing is incredibly fascinating at the moment. Personally, my usage always depends heavily on the availability of the "right" client app. And there are some promising candidates in development for iOS/Mac.
Successful clients will then also influence how Mastodon as a whole develops.
Successful clients will then also influence how Mastodon as a whole develops.
chribonn@h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
When something is not owned by a single entity society benefits.
Things can move slowly becuase they are driven by committee but ultimately the users are the winners.
No Elon by buy Mastodon and your investment in participating here will never be owned by a private company.
If your entry point to Mastodon goes down or isn't to your liking you can move, posts and all.
Scot Hacker@chribonn @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
What do you mean “posts and all?” The fact that we can’t import posts to a new instance is one of the big sore spots of Mastodon. Or did I miss some news?
What do you mean “posts and all?” The fact that we can’t import posts to a new instance is one of the big sore spots of Mastodon. Or did I miss some news?
@shacker @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
I based my comment on the following: https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/103393780267601137
Matt Hauger@chribonn @shacker @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon You can bring your followers with you to a new instance, but I think the posts stay with the previous account?
@matt @shacker @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon Although you can save the posts you can't transfer them. There seem to be many requests to allow these to be moved; great idea although with federated versions controlled by organisations it might be a sticky topic.
In a company whose employees are on Mastodon who owns the toots?
@chribonn @matt @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon That is a good question about content ownership. Though I think that sort of stuff is generally covered by an employee's contract. In any case, it seems crazy to me that Mastodon calls it "migration" when the actual content is not migrated - we wouldn't be able to get away with that anywhere else in the tech world.
@shacker @matt @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
These discussions are what make places like #Mastodon different from corporate owned alternatives. There is probably a lot more consideration with federated environments; no owner to take decisions on depending on which side of the bed they got out from.
Is there an environment where ideas can be put forward in Mastodon?.
Elias Mårtenson@chribonn @shacker @matt @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon There is the Mastodon bug tracker where the technical implementations are discussed. Here's the discussion on the quote boosting: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/20673
@h_albermann @austinkocher @Mastodon Horst, indeed. I'm excited to see how things develop. #Mastodon
@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon From my perspective, the formation of mastodon communities is also an interesting development. People consciously choose an entity whose rules correspond to their own values. That is, the individual can rely to a certain extent on consensus within his chosen group when it comes to protecting his dignity in the social network.
@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon For me, Twitter has always been a strange place in this regard.
A town square with access for almost everyone. But one in which the local leader led the group of rockers past the radical vegans to put on a show for the bystanders. To protect the individual there was the equivalent of headphones ...
Eirliani, you should know much better than I, which dynamics play a role there. ...
@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon What I find interesting is that Mastodon instances can and do block other instances. Whereby blockades are also removed again when a consensus is found. I.e. social interaction on group level is possible. The social acceptance of a group is equivalent to their reach in the Fediverse ...
It will be interesting to see which strategies of which user groups successfully achieve their goals. Everything from the digital hermit to the puffer or demagogue ...
@h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon For myself, I'm most apprehensive about problems of scale - moderation at scale is a Very Hard Problem™, and even at relatively small group sizes is an effectively endless stream of unpleasant and typically uncompensated labor.
Similarly, impersonation, abuse, and bad actors become much thornier problems with greater scale. It will be interesting to see how these things are addressed as the #fediverse grows.
@hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon I see similar to you Hank.
As with any human attempt to organize in a new environment, much or all can go wrong.
The model of the voluntary moderators in Mastodon has already led to ideas whether an outsourced, professionalized moderation would not be the right idea. Would not rule that out for certain like-minded communities. But with the current size, we need to get the basics right first.
@hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
I also find the changes that Mastodon brings here interesting: Banning a troublemaker on a personal level or by the moderators of the instance. Banning of entire instances if they are considered toxic or poorly moderated. As a multi-layered approach.
This should allow for a certain inherent resilience that conversely keeps the moderation problem manageable. My hope…
But it may be that moderators have quite different stories to tell ...
@h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon For the very worst content, moderation is trauma-inducing, so I have real concerns about the ethics of outsourced professional moderation.
Even in a hypothetical situation where those concerns are ethically addressed (well-paid moderators with adequate recovery time and mental and emotional health care?), how would such moderation be funded and overseen in the #fediverse? What kinds of structures and governance would be required?
@hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
I am very skeptical myself about "outsourcing" moderation. But you make good arguments why professionalization could be beneficial: Can volunteers really be expected to go through these experiences?
But our society also leaves other potentially traumatizing tasks to volunteers: Firefighters, disaster relief, refugee workers …
I don't know the answer, but the discussions about it are necessary and probably we will have to try things out.
Ms. Penny Oaken@h_albermann @hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon I volunteered to moderate on Reddit - helped to run r/AgainstHateSubreddits. I was doxxed, my life threatened, every conceivable harassment angle aimed at me. I’ve seen ISIL propaganda and worked to take down domestic terrorists, white supremacist groups, and sex traffickers.
Asking volunteers to field any of that is unconscionable. Moderators need to be supported, not just thanked.
Asking volunteers to field any of that is unconscionable. Moderators need to be supported, not just thanked.
@PennyOaken @hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
To use another oblique analogy: No one would entrust an international airport to a volunteer fire department. But it works quite well for the neighboring village or parts of a large city.
Does the federal structure of the Fediverse make a difference? I don't know. But slowly the Fedivers is growing into a scale that could provide answers.
And by the way, I admire anyone who dares to be a moderator. People can be such ...
Simon Brooke@h_albermann Maybe that's part of why we shouldn't have international airports. Apart from the carbon cost of them, of course.
ginevra (she / they)@h_albermann @PennyOaken @hankteford @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon although here the firefighters who deal with large fires & are the most trusted *are the volunteers*. I've been a volunteer moderator for 2 years on a discord server, I think we have very solid moderation practices & a good team. It has moments of stress but not constant stress. It helps that we can immediately kick anyone for posting horror or who wastes our time in endless 'what ifs', unlike reddit. I understand mastodon can ban stuff fast so I think it is actually volunteer-manageable
@PennyOaken @h_albermann @hankteford @austinkocher @Mastodon I'm very sorry this happened to you. I thank you for your courageous and important work.
I agree with you: #moderators need to be supported. #Mastodon #fediverse
@h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon These are good points. I think "volunteers with support networks" might be the answer I'm most ethically comfortable with, but how to implement it at scale, across numerous instances... 🤷 Especially if we want to avoid the "we'll call them heroes and shovel them onto the fire to keep the train running" pitfall of many crucial-but-unglamorous roles.
I'm not sure where the solution is, hopefully people more informed and educated than me will know.
sparseMatrix ✅✅✅ 📻@hankteford @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
Those are matters to be handled at the same scales, and in the same distributed fashion as other #administriva in the #fediverse. at the instance-local level, by instance admins, behaving the interest of those who use and fund that local instance.
The medium is structure, and is self sufficient and self supporting, by design; or so goes the theory. It seems to work.
@sparseMatrix @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
I am admittedly new here, but I am skeptical of "it hasn't been a problem yet" as a statement, let alone as a guarantee against future problems.
If the #fediverse grows to the point where it is even remotely as socially relevant as birdsite, it will be a target for bad actors, and the expectation that instance-local admins will respond effectively to coordinated bad actors feels quite optimistic.
@hankteford @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
You kind of missed the point, which is that ‘it’ would be a lot more ‘sensitive’ to the concerns you’re seeking to address, if ‘it ‘ were as entirely monolithic as your questions anticipate.
For instance, no one here has any real interest or investment in your being ‘here’ or continuing to be ‘here’ beyond simple community. Consequently, we have no great need to bullshit or otherwise manipulate you to remain “here”.
FWIW, there are those of us who’ve never participated in the shitstorm that continues to be twitter, and so feel no particular need to replace it or see it replaced.
@hankteford @h_albermann @eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
I want to be clear here; I do not make absolute assessments if I can avoid it, so for instance I try not to say things like ‘my car starts every time’, etc., even if it has every time I turned it on.
Rest assured, I hold the stability and resilience of the masto communities’ instances in the absolute highest regard, and offer as strong an endorsement as I can muster in that regard.
Thanks to the developers and instance admins who make it possible and keep it up and running.
You guys are the best.
JohnMashey@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon
As @lauren and others have noted, there is some resemblance to early USENET.
Some newsgroups were well-moderated (officially or informally) and did well for long time. That broke down somewhat when Eternal September arrived, and worse later with Web interface & hordes. Newsgroups (like comp.arch), once frequented by experts got overrun by loud amateurs & even KILLFILEs weren’t enough to maintain good signal-to-noise ratios. Sigh.
As @lauren and others have noted, there is some resemblance to early USENET.
Some newsgroups were well-moderated (officially or informally) and did well for long time. That broke down somewhat when Eternal September arrived, and worse later with Web interface & hordes. Newsgroups (like comp.arch), once frequented by experts got overrun by loud amateurs & even KILLFILEs weren’t enough to maintain good signal-to-noise ratios. Sigh.
LadyT@eirliani @austinkocher @Mastodon all the while hate speech is upheld as free speech social media platforms will have this problem as decent ppl seek out kinder forums
Anya 👁️
Idealistic Pragmatist 
@austinkocher I'm feeling like that too. I'm still on Twitter because some of my communities are still there (and some of the knowledge-keepers I follow on certain topics are still using it), but most of the ways I used to use it I'm now doing on Mastodon, plus several uses I never felt comfortable doing on Twitter. So using any of the deliberate Twitter replacements doesn't appeal at all: I already have tools for that.
David Ross Bacchetti@austinkocher I agree, very impressive & no need to continue searching after the #DeadBird #Qwitter ,,, I don't understand the subserver thing, searching, mechanics etc but...