Darryl 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 ⸸About stinking time. Unfortunately it is still too little and too late to wash the blood off our hands.
Ramesh #NotGoingBack⬆️ @Darryl
What a sham resolution!
No mention of #Hamas, whose militants killed about 1,200 people and abducted about 240 in #Israel
One amendment proposed by #US would have added a paragraph stating that UNGA “unequivocally rejects and condemns the heinous terrorist attacks by Hamas.”
A second amendment proposed by #Austria would have added that the hostages are “held by Hamas and other groups” and should be released “immediately.”
Both amendments were voted down
UN General Assembly votes overwhelmingly to demand a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza
The U.N. General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly to demand a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza in a strong demonstration of global support for ending the Israel-Hamas war. The vote also shows the growing isolation of the United States and Israel. The vote in the 193-member world body was 153 in favor, 10 against and 23 abstentions. The support was higher than for an Oct. 27 resolution that called for a “humanitarian truce” leading to a cessation of hostilities, where the vote was 120 to 14 with 45 abstentions. Unlike Security Council resolutions, General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding. But the assembly’s messages are important barometers of world opinion.
What Hamas did two months ago is not the issue. Keep up. The issue is the magnitude more civilians Israel is killing right NOW! And the magnitude higher again, people that will carry life long injuries. And the even higher magnitude again of people that are permanent homeless.
Next to that the carnage that Hamas did seems like a walk in the park.
⬆️ @Darryl
You have NO idea how much I keep up with — whether it is current events, recent history, ancient history, or even the various regions of the world.
Take some time to go through my toots. You might even learn something, because ALL of them include links to sources.
Why do you say what #Hamas did 2 months ago is not the issue? Another Hamas simp said she was not interested in what happened 100 years ago.
You can't solve a problem if you don't know what caused it.
The solution to genocide in Gaza right now is simple. Stop dropping bombs.
After that we can look at root causes and find a solution to those, which will have to include either Israel abandoning their settlements to something close to the 67 green line or turning Israel into the secular country it should have been in the first place giving Palestinians equal rights.
I know contentious issues there. Which is why the focus for now is to stop the killing and deal with these bigger issues later.
Avi@Darryl @rameshgupta Dude, Hamas does not care one whiff about the ‘67 lines, and neither did the Arabs that attacked Israel at the time. Israel IS a secular country, it does sound like you do not believe Jews, as a nation, deserve self determination. That’s the kind of talk that enables genocide, and did.
Hamas is not the root cause so therefore is not relevant when I talk about addressing root causes.
When I talk about making Israel secular I am including the occupied territories. i.e. a one state solution. They have been colonizing them for a long time now jeopardizing a two state solution in the process. The Palestinians there do have equal rights.
Root cause is #Arabism
Been since #WWI
#Arab territorial ambition, NOT #Palestinian welfare, drove #DamascusProtocol by secret Arab societies
Arabs promised to help #British against #OttomanEmpire in exchange for Arab independence, but Palestinians had NO agency in that, nor did they do anything to get anything from British in return.
#Britain never promised them that land.
Since root of the problem is #territorial, not #religious, #secular one-state is not solution
@rameshgupta @Darryl A secular one state would be an excellent solution if (1) either side was interested (2) they shared other common interests (3) they shared enough to form a cultural bond such as language or values or indeed religion or history or future plans (4) there was not a huge gap in material culture, very evident since the beginning in the 19th century and still extremely present (compare GDP of say, Jordan and Israel) …….. (1 / 2)
@rameshgupta @Darryl …. which threatens any social cohesion in a single polity / economy (5) there was any scenario under which the Jewish population — Zionist or not, endemic to the region or new — were protected from the type of destruction and death dealt to it by the Arab population since the dawn of the arrival of Zionism in the early 20th century whenever given a chance (2/3 actually) ……..
.
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@rameshgupta @Darryl …. It is a beautiful vision that may one day work out. But simply saying it today provides no dynamic solution to how to get there without killing almost everybody involved.
Yes, Hamas is not the root problem, Palestinian misery is not the root problem. The root problem is historical Arab resistance to Jewish presence in Palestine, certainly as a nation but also simply as people.
@rameshgupta @Darryl Really calling this a “solution” is a confusion between what it takes to work out a solution proposal and what it takes to say “I wish it were so, it would be so beautiful if the lamb could lie with the lion.” It’s not a solution, it’s an incantation.
@rameshgupta @Darryl I will correct and add, that at the moment it moved beyond Arab resistance to Iran, which promises to keep things messed up for a long time. A one-state solution under the best circumstances will in fact exacerbate the Iran problem. A one-state Palestine/Israel, if it were possible, would become the most powerful political entity in the Middle East. Guess who would immediately consider it Satan itself? For whatever reason they will make up.
@rameshgupta @Darryl The Iranians calling for “Free Palestine” certainly do not have in mind a combined Jewish/Arab/Other minorities secular state in Palestine. First of all, they do not want “secular” states anywhere, certainly not near them. Secondly, they want hegemony. They will fight for hegemony down to the last Arab life, they are already doing it. A secular peace and prosperity among two populations they abhor, the Arabs and Jews, will threaten them enormously. LOL.
"The root problem is historical Arab resistance to Jewish presence in Palestine, certainly as a nation but also simply as people."
Hmm interesting. Given the massive number of israeli settlements built on the land that was suppose to be for the palestinians in the west bank, and other political indicators, I wonder which party is the one that has true resistance.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-israelis-just-vote-to-end-the-two-state-solution/
@Darryl @rameshgupta I don’t know, the first Arab massacre of Jews started in the Tel Aviv port in 1921 when the town had fewer than 3,000 and was a neighborhood of Arab Jaffa. Hmmm indeed
Wait. You had to go back a hundred years to identify something on the Arab side, while Israeli resistance to sharing the land is evident in every newscast and newspaper you pick up today? And a hundred years ago there were plenty of militias on both sides perpetrating massacres.
With a strong military and American support, Israel has been in the drivers seat for the past 50 years. If they had a desire for a two state solution, they could have imposed it, or at the very least imposed the conditions to make it possible. Instead they have used that military advantage to disposes Palestinians of their land, making it quite impossible. The only reason I bring up the idea of a one state solution is because Israel has made a two state solution almost impossible.
Oh no no, you don't get to #cherrypick the time frame when it suits you.
12th c.BCE arrival of #Philistines in #Canaan, ignoring that #Jews were present since before that
1917 First wave of #Zionists, ignoring #Paltestinian hatred against #Jews since before the #FirstAliyah -- Why is it ok to bring Zionism up from more than 100 years ago, but not #Arabism?
>> What #Hamas did 2 mo ago is not the issue ➡️ https://kolektiva.social/@Darryl/111570840047394442
Now you want to go back 50 years & blame #US?
Darryl 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 ⸸ (@[email protected])
@[email protected] What Hamas did two months ago is not the issue. Keep up. The issue is the magnitude more civilians Israel is killing right NOW! And the magnitude higher again, people that will carry life long injuries. And the even higher magnitude again of people that are permanent homeless. Next to that the carnage that Hamas did seems like a walk in the park.
@rameshgupta @Darryl Dude, there are still dozens of captives dying slowly in Gaza because of what Hamas did. People are still dying from the wounds they received on 10/7. Whole villages are standing in burnt ruins. Individuals are still being identified based on the tiniest DNA samples. You can choose what you argue about and with whom and you can decide to ignore it, but the Israelis didn’t reach that Nirvana yet. Gross.
@rameshgupta @Darryl can I pick a time frame? Since we are watching the fighting there as we speak lol
@Darryl @rameshgupta you have to start at the beginning to identify the root, doh. It’s just basic history
⬆️ @ashmueli
You are correctly tugging at multiple threads.
1. #Secular #oneState or #noStateSolution is a fantasy. This is informed by our collective experience in the partition of #BritishIndia, which had many #uncannySimilarities with #BritishPalestine, least of which is that BOTH were offered #TwoStateSolution in 1947.
Mortal enemies #India & #Pakistan settled — Neither was perfectly happy, but it was good enough.
There was still violence, but neither tried to eliminate other
@Darryl
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⬆️ @ashmueli
Egged on by neighboring #Arab states, who #Palestinians let fight #inTheirName, they rejected the #TwoStateSolution because misguided #Arabism prevented them from accepting a good enough solution.
After their defeat, wealthy Arab states just walked away without doing anything to rehabilitate their #Palestinian #Brothers, only to resurface and fight repeatedly in hopes of wiping out #Israel rather than independence of Palestine.
That's why #secular one state is a fantasy
@Darryl
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@Darryl @rameshgupta you are ignoring a few things. “was supposed to” by what? The partition plan of 1947 which the Palestinians and Arabs rejected? The 1967 lines which the Palestinians never accepted and the Arabs attacked from? The Oslo accords, which never stopped terror attacks against Jews either within Israel proper or the territories? You pick a static situation and ignore the dynamics. Not sure if ignorance or intentional.
Pick one. As I said. Israel is and has been in the drivers seat. They could have imposed any of them or any other solution. Which I guess they did. The solution they chose just wasn't one that would do much to promote peace. Just the opposite in fact.
@Darryl How do you think Israel ended up in the “drivers seat”? There was no preordained victory in the 1948 war, where it was attacked by a huge coalition of Arab countries and suffered existential threat. There was again no sure victory in the 1967 war, where for months Israelis contemplated their demise, again. It was step by step that the country grew through fighting against Arab onslaughts. It takes far more than two to tango. Do not infantilize the Palestinians.
Got it. So Israel earned the right to subjugate and occupy the Palestinians.
@Darryl Israel left Gaza in 2005. It didn’t want to subjugate and occupy, it left and uprooted many communities, folded all army bases at great cost, and tried really hard to forget about it. Didn’t help. I’m not sure what you are on about, but it’s not about reality.
TV interviewer: Does that new one include the palestinians living in a state of their own?
...
Do they have a state?
Israel Ambassador: The answer is absolutely no.
And you still question israel's determination to take all the land and, I guess, wipe out the palestinians.
@Darryl so someone called Tzipi Hotovely doesn’t want a two state solution, also rejected by both Hamas and the PLO, repeatedly, what a gotcha. You got me!
Heh. Yeah "someone" who just happens to be the Israeli Ambassador to the UK and is the official voice of Israel in the UK, says in no uncertain term, there will never be a two state solution. How can it be made any plainer to you that Israel is at least as big a part of the problem than any other party?
@Darryl of course Israel is part of the problem, it’s the victim.
You don't go to #LasVegas, gamble, lose everything, & then blame the casinos for "robbing" you. YOU alone are responsible for your loss.
#Arabs & #Palestinians jointly gambled against #TwoStateSolution & #Israel, lost MULTIPLE wars, & #territory along with that.
That's not colonization. That's a military loss for which Palestinians and ONLY Palestinians are to blame.
#Settlements are a different problem. Not the root problem, which is still #Arabism.