mzzrachNov 28, 2022
Chad Loder
Twitter was never a healthy "public square" for most of us. Let's not rewrite history while eulogizing the hellsite.
Twitter was a frightening battleground where we managed barely to claw out an uneasy existence amidst the worst violent neo-Nazi extremists who constantly published our home addresses, threatened our kids' lives, and sent hordes of racist trolls into our mentions.
The same principles that allowed us to survive uneasily on Twitter will be required here in the #fediverse. Community defense, thoughtful pressure on moderation policies, and eternal vigilance.
There are no safe spaces but those we make safe through constant effort. We keep us safe.
Nov 27, 2022 at 5:25pmWeb
Show threadNick Selby Nov 27, 2022
@chadloder maybe I am misremembering through rose colored glasses, but I remember that Twitter from 2007 until about 2014 did not have a lot of the toxic qualities that seemed to get amplified at the end of the Obama administration era. It is currently intolerable for any purpose. [Note: Chad and Stephanie provided great examples of toxicity during that period that have reminded me that indeed I was misremembering through rose colored glasses]
Show threadDennis JernbergNov 27, 2022
@fuzztech @chadloder I was around there from 2009 till recently and what I remember from the early days was our struggle against porn spambots, especially those supremely annoying Britneybots. I don't remember it getting truly toxic until they added the algorithm and then GamerGate hit. That's when I first started seeing Nazis there. They were incubating on the "chans" until then.
Show threadEmpressNortonNov 28, 2022
@dennis_jernberg @fuzztech @chadloder GamerGate is when I first started frequently blocking. Of course, I was small time, and bigger names may have hit trouble even pre-GamerGate. But yeah, pre-GG my biggest nuisance was porn spambots.
Show threadChad LoderNov 27, 2022
@fuzztech I think we should ask @mekkaokereke and other Black folks what their experience was like on Twitter to the 2014 "your slip is showing" stuff https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ryanhatesthis/your-slip-is-showing-4chan-trolls-operation-lollipop
Activists Are Outing Hundreds Of Twitter Users Believed To Be 4chan Trolls Posing As Feminists

It looks like Twitter's social justice community is cleaning house in a big way at the moment.

BuzzFeed News
Show threadNick Selby Nov 27, 2022
@chadloder @mekkaokereke too right, I stand totally corrected! Thanks!
Show thread¡a!nNov 27, 2022
@chadloder @fuzztech @mekkaokereke or gamergate
Show threadEarnestpNov 27, 2022
@chadloder @fuzztech @mekkaokereke I had been on Twitter since 2007, and I think those first couple years actually felt similar to how Mastodon feels today. In my experience, it seems virality through retweet in 2010 changed Twitter for better and for worse. Maybe much worse.
Show threadMathiasTCKNov 28, 2022

@Earnestp @chadloder @fuzztech @mekkaokereke same 2007 joined, back when Twitter's sms support was cutting edge https://techcrunch.com/2007/11/19/twitter-starts-to-limit-outbound-sms-in-uk/

I agree I am seeing lots of similarities here (as part of the #TwitterEmigratiom ), lots of early adopters, techies and academics. Twitter also benefitted greatly from it's relatively open API letting people experiment with Twitter clients.

Now it feels like post Fox Myspace.

TechCrunch is part of the Yahoo family of brands

Show threadStephanie ZvanNov 27, 2022
@chadloder @fuzztech If you were a woman in game development or the atheist and skeptic movements, you’d remember differently. Other groups as well, I’m sure. It’s merely that the discussions on how to deal with it were still stuck in “Don’t feed the trolls”, so the prevailing attitude was that the targets were to blame.
Show threadNick Selby Nov 27, 2022
@StephanieZvan @chadloder totally great and valid point and yea, see, I did misremember. Thanks for setting me straight.
Show threadRichelle AhlversNov 27, 2022
@StephanieZvan @chadloder @fuzztech I was going to make a similar point - as a woman in tech, I absolutely wouldn't have ever made myself visible, ever. Gamergate is just a highly visible incident. Twitter, and really anyplace where people can hide behind anonymity, both online and IRL. They were all there on Usenet too.
Show threadדאיקייטNov 27, 2022

@fuzztech @chadloder

> In the twilight of dissolution, everything is illuminated by the aura of nostalgia; even the guillotine.
— Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Show threadArcStriderNov 30, 2022
@fuzztech GamerGate happened in 2012
Show threadStop-the-MAGAss-ReichNov 27, 2022
@chadloder I compare it to the "Byzantine generals problem"
Show threadKim Crayton ~ Her/SheNov 27, 2022

@chadloder EXACTLY!
Folx worked their asses off to carve out a piece of sanctuary in the midst of chaos and under constant threat

That’s what I think most of us are mourning…it’s like when you get your sweet tea just right and then someone refills your glass and now it’s back to work

Show threadMamieNov 28, 2022
@KimCrayton1 @chadloder
Perfect analogy, Kim.
Show threadVictor Jara (Tribute)Nov 28, 2022

@mamie @KimCrayton1 @chadloder
RE: Safety
On twitter we had apps to copy each others' blocklists.

On M, so far, I figured out that if you copy the long blocklist from a well-moderated instance, you can upload it through your profile>import panels but you have to reduce it to the below-illustrated format.

Might also have to name the file "blocked_domains.csv" (maybe).

I tested and this works.

Would appreciate if anybody has a faster way. Example of the format:

dumbasses.site
idiotposters.com
momsbasementdweller.social
wanabefash.loser
maggots.birdshite

--REPOSTED AS PUBLIC --

Show threademmamarxNov 27, 2022
@chadloder followed you here, fuck twitter.
Show threadJeffgodofbiscuitsNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Exactly. I had pretty much dropped off Twitter in terms of posting for a couple of months before the election, going on there just to check a few accounts and interact with a couple of people I know well. I was much happier when I was off it.
My hope with Musk would be either he’d fix Twitter’s problems or if he didn’t do that he’d burn the place down which seems to be what he’s doing. Either would count as an improvement in my eyes.
Show threadA L KatzNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Hear, hear. And, here in the #fediverse, each of us is our own #algorithm. We are the sole arbiters of what we see, hear & experience.
Show threadc b weisgramNov 27, 2022
@chadloder One of the primary use cases (for better, and for much much worse) of Twitter has always been to deliver up people to their bullies. In the best of cases, there were whole movements calling powerful people to account, but that same mechanism worked in the other direction for as long as Twitter has existed. Media without gatekeepers results in previously unheard of people getting heard and that is worth considering, but also is the cheap, threatening speech and harassment.
Show threadThe Great Llama Nov 27, 2022

@chadloder
If they continue their campaign of harassment over there, they will eventually get bored because there won't be anyone left to fight with. They'll show up here sooner or later.

I've definitely seen a couple of accounts here already presenting themselves as "moderate liberals" and repeating what I read as right wing nonsense. It might have been just honest ignorance, but I suspect otherwise.

Show threadAnthonyUplandpoetWatkinsNov 27, 2022
@chadloder i think twitter was about 3-4 very different places:
1) white western twitter, a not too pleasant place to argue politics
2)Black twitter, a key organizing and communicating platform
3)international twitter, a great place to communicate, especially if you are in a repressive country
4) some other twitter that as a white western male i am completely unaware of....
so for me, no great loss, for some, it is catastrophic.
Show threadsotsogmNov 27, 2022

@AnthonyUplandpoetWatkins @chadloder there was Artsy Twitter, which was a mostly cool place for creatives to procrastinate when they were "supposed to be" writing/editing/digitally painting/composing/etc.; there were sometimes troll problems and episodes of brigading, but until GamerGate and Sad Puppies it was (IMHO) mostly cool.

And Law Twitter tended to be mostly okay.

I dunno. It was never perfect, but I also think it was less of a hellsite than we always say. There's reasons we were there.

Show threadenchantedsleeper 🌈⭐Nov 28, 2022

@AnthonyUplandpoetWatkins I would add "journalistic echo chamber Twitter" but I think that had decent overlap with the first one 😅

Literature/arts Twitter is worth a mention, however

Show thread[email protected]Nov 27, 2022
@chadloder Yes or no. For me, Twitter will be remembered as pictures of eels and medieval marginalia; humorous weather reports; a job I got thanks to a Twitter post in 2011; some friendships; news too; transit criticism; pedestrian forums; bicyclists unite; lots of great pictures; a place to write notes to myself; tech and financial explanations..... I blocked or muted the dirt.
Show threadAurora DittoNov 27, 2022
@irizoris : )) nice! i remember the art work done to a cup (awesome but who, i can't remember), solidarity between friends when someone was severely ill, people meeting and marrying thanks to it, amazing integrated profiles' names, dry humour, black and white fabulous pictures, the feeling of a rustling (completely silent in the room) world of vulnerable loved lives, fantastic #science #nature and #cooking posts, #nurses posts, #chemical useful posts
Show threadToni AittoniemiNov 27, 2022
@chadloder 👏👏👏 *raving applause* 👏👏👏
Show threadTy RossNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Very well put 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Show threadmarathonNov 27, 2022

@chadloder

Strange, I’ve been on the Birdsite for years, and never had this problem, even though I was/still am publishing political stuff. Any that did were promptly blocked. You folks must practice poor security if you were doxxed that easily. How do you folk function in public, or do most of you live comfortable middle class lives?!

@blaine

Show threadTattie (old account)Nov 27, 2022
@marathon0 @chadloder @blaine "you folk". Right.
Show threadmarathonNov 27, 2022

@Tattie

?? What should I refer to you as?

@chadloder @blaine

Show threadNgati Pakeha KuiaNov 27, 2022
@blaine @chadloder @marathon0 I had to block many people on Twitter. Truly toxic and abusive people. Attack trolls I would call them. If you were not subject to this you were very fortunate.
Show threadmarathonNov 27, 2022

@CarolynStirling

O I was but that even happens IRL. Just block them and move on. Fortunately my followers would back me up too, that helps emotionally. I’m a little older and have been through life. None of the abuse really had me worried, but then I’m used to living and going about my business in a rough area.

@blaine @chadloder

Show threadJosephine O MalasNov 27, 2022
@chadloder well said. If those things were maintained, I actually wouldn't mind #advertisements here. If advertisements were hooked only to #hashtags and not user data, and the #advertisers were vetted (no political #ads, no domestic or foreign #propaganda) then this could end up a great model for sustainable real discourse. And if most of the profits went towards improvements & #moderation, that would be fantastic.
Show threadTyler C  Nov 27, 2022
@chadloder let's not forget that it empowered some people to do things like turn a frog cartoon into a symbol of white supremacy
Show threadMaitriNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Yup. Even before its latest plunge, my Twitter usage was inversely proportional to the increase in ads and bot accounts. And, as I said in today’s first toot, a square isn’t public if it is owned by a for-profit corporation. I do miss my carefully-organized geoscience and hurricane evacuation communities, but they can and will be reconstructed here with the values of community defense you mention.
Show threadTattie (old account)Nov 27, 2022
@chadloder Twitter was a place where I could expect *any* conversation to turn eventually to hate against people like me. Eventually I just avoided it entirely.
Show threadStefan SchollNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Nice to see a realist on the #fediverse. Some people still think this is paradise.
Show threadDanNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Exactly this. I watched the Twitter Mob absolutely savage people to the point they left the Internet, sometimes permanently, and worse. People may have found a safe niche here and there, but the Twitterverse as a whole loves to eat its own.
Show threadGabyDowNov 27, 2022

@chadloder yes. And don’t forget about the people (like my little sister) who tried to be part of the Twitter conversation but fled the platform after reviving death/rape threats after a first post simply stating a benign opinion.

A battleground is exactly right.

Show threadDaniel AndrlikNov 27, 2022

@chadloder @cstross Adding to that, what moderation was available on Twitter (and other sites) was at the expense of exploited outsource/contract workers exposed to the worst of the Internet, often in developing countries. And I don’t think anyone in the Fediverse wants to repeat that.

That means, at scale, it will be harder to do here. But it’s hard to do with corporate social media too, they just pass the responsibility to people they don’t care about, so illusion persists.

Show threadfrandroid 🏴‍☠️ jin jiyan azadîNov 27, 2022
@andrlik @chadloder @cstross
In a decentralized and federated environment, moderation will also have to be decentralized and moderated. Right now I think it's only decentralized to the instances, but on the instances themselves it comes down to individual moderators. Slashdot showed us what how community metamoderation could work 20 years ago; the fediverse should implement these practices ASAP. #FediMeta #FediModeration
Show threadSallyNov 27, 2022
@chadloder This was not and still is not my experience on Twitter—a space I will not cede (yet? IDK) to the forces of evil. Should that change for me, I will leave. Certainly spending $0 there.
Show threadדאיקייטNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Hey, let me grieve my problematic half-measures.
Show threadRep. Steven WoodrowNov 27, 2022
@chadloder it was never public at all. Its a private corporation with more free speech rights than anyone posting on it.
Show threadAnnaParadoxNov 27, 2022
@chadloder That is exactly why my profile says, "We make progress." It's our efforts that create the better communities. Of course, I mean it the other way, too. We've had some downturns recently, and we are still way ahead of 1950 or 1850.
Show threadSteveNov 27, 2022
@chadloder When victims of troll attacks are speaking out about their experiences here, it is NOT helpful to get all defensive about this place, essentially minimizing what they're going through. You're just doing the trolls' work for them at that point. If you feel yourself about to type anything close to "well I've never experienced anything like that" or "you just to have to block them" or "yeah but the mods are real busy" then please stop and move to another thread.
#twitterMigration #trolls
Show threadJose MarichalNov 27, 2022
@chadloder well said... I think some people are disposed to like the antagonistic discourse that Twitter promoted.... for me, pointless arguing with faceless, nameless strangers was always anxiety provoking.
Show threadStaceNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Such is life.
Show threadNicoleNov 27, 2022
@chadloder i've quit twitter and co years ago when i noticed politics from america started to have the same program that ancient and modern fascist party of europe. The simple fact that few paid attention made me realize that the darkest hours of europe were showing up again should have been a concern. History is a circle, and if in the 30's the extreme usedthe radio to raise to power today they use social medias. The day those people will show up here i will be done with mastodon.
Show threadjhambyNov 27, 2022

@chadloder This is exactly right. I remember GamerGate and the various other signposts along the way that others have mentioned already. I'm currently rereading The Chaos Machine by Max Fisher, about how #SocialMedia was designed to maximize engagement, including by getting us all riled up and become a battleground for all sorts of disinformation (which travels much farther and faster than the truth).

Mastodon's not designed to addict, nor to rile us up. But abusers will abuse the affordances.

Show threadjhambyNov 27, 2022

@chadloder I'm using the technical term "affordances" now after Dr. Johnathan Flowers used it 46 times in a recent interview on The Whiteness of Mastodon: https://techpolicy.press/the-whiteness-of-mastodon/

The reason he used "affordance" so many times is it's the shortest word to represent "the quality or property of an object that defines its possible uses or makes clear how it can or should be used" (from Google). The affordances of Mastodon discourage aggression, but don't discourage, e.g. passive-aggressive attacks.

The Whiteness of Mastodon

A conversation with Dr. Johnathan Flowers about Elon Musk's changes at Twitter and the dynamics on Mastodon, the decentralized alternative.

Tech Policy Press
Show threadjhambyNov 27, 2022

@chadloder What's funny is this stuff is getting my UX design juices flowing because we're all now responsible for trying to shape the direction of this social experiment we're participant-observers in. Very different dynamics from the ad-supported for-profit social media companies I've worked at (and work for now).

Like the crypto nerds talked about "being your own bank", we're gonna have to "be our own UX designers" for this thing and learn terms like "affordances" and "interaction design".

Show threadOnurNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Twitter was just a blue bird hunted by rich kid 😁
Show threadthebatNov 27, 2022
@chadloder
Absolutely, let's do this
!
Show threadDogbold_systemNov 27, 2022

@chadloder the site was literally designed to make you so mad you couldn't think

like look! i take a bit of time to use mastodon and look what i come back to!

twitter's literally found more elon musk bullshit for me to get mad about, and started begging me, "please get mad at this, it'll be different this time, i swear!"

Show threadJames BenjaminNov 27, 2022
@chadloder Twitter has always been a hellscape, and that includes my own little corners of Twitter. Saw enough racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, etc. to last numerous lifetimes. I will certainly miss people I lose contact with as Twitter devolves, but I'm okay with moving on. The Fediverse looks promising, so far.