@aleteoryx I think that the move re: #wayland is due to the same reasons moving away from #SysVinit was at worst a "necessary evil"…

• If sysVinit was fine, @pid_eins would not have started #SystemD (which is basically a reimplementation of #LaunchD for #Linux).
• If #Xorg was fine noone would've started working on Wayland.
  • Also #Xlibre's head maintainer / project lead is just a horrible person who's words and actions burned any goodwill amidst the originally legitimate issues beforehand.

@stilic @SRAZKVT yeah, but either of these basically implement either the same or a subset of #SystemD or #SysVinit.

• Even #toybox's #init [oneit] works by being a subset if the init by just running whatever script is under /etc/init…

But that's because essentially doing either manual (SysVinit) or hierachical-automated (SystemD) dependency resolution is the only way to make it any #Linux or #Unix'esque system work…

• Including #macOS which uses #LaunchD aka. the inspiration for SystemD that doesn't get hated by #BSD fans…

@ellenor2000

http://jdebp.info/FGA/launchd-on-bsd.html

It went dormant some time in 2015, to my knowledge. I had genuinely been joking about an #XML parser in process 1 until someone went and did that.

With a shell, of course, it's the same sort of thing, with a full language parser, an interactive user interface, curses, terminfo/termcap, an editing library, command completion add-ins, and so forth, in the program for process 1.

Almost all proper process 1 programs do far less.

#launchd #FreeBSD

@bodil also #SystemD is evidently a "necessary evil" at worst, because noone accepts #SysVinit boot times measured in minutes!

Interestibgly the same folks hating systemd are loving #LaunchD & #SMF yet launchd is what inspired SystemD...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

@CursedSilicon @gettie mostly because #systemD (and it's competitiors) took all the right lessions:

• Start less
• Start more in parallel
• Resolve dependencies to avoid waiting times

And basically everyone (#OpenRC, #Upstart, etc. Even #LaunchD [the #init for #macOS that is literally the SystemD but before SystemD and by Apple] and #SMF [#Sun's SystemD for #Solaris] did that to allow for boot times in secinds, not minutes…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=12m17s

@fabiscafe @okapi OFC @chesheer 's criticism is understandable on #FreeBSD given that #SystemD is inherenty focussed and intertwined with #Linux (just as it's Inspiration, #LaunchD, is intertwined with #macOS's Darwin/NeXTstep kernel).

• The problem is after some hefty "init wars" with like #Upstart and others SystemD became the de-facto standard, and the "(statistical) rounding errors" of #BSD users got sidelined, in part because BSDs looked at that mess and went like "Nyet, SysVinit is fine!" and continued their fiddling around...

And sadly there's nothing they (or anyone else) could've done unless they had multiplied suddenly and being able to keepcthe old tech stack maintainable.

• Similarly #Xorg is dying and there are already GPUs that only support #Wayland and #X11 apps get run using #XWayland.

OFC I wish for more diversity in solutions, but #Linux being #streamlined is what makes #portability across distros easier and boosted adoption as well as providing massive gains in solutions like #DXVK, #Proton and #Wine in general.

• And TBH most "#TechIlliterates" aka. "#Normies" frankly don't give a shit what OS they use. All it needs to do is serve them their eMails and allow them to 'consoom themselbes happy' as in watching YouTube, Play games, etc.

@fabiscafe @okapi espechally in the form of an interactive desktop...

• I could see it valid for multiple shell sessions, but #tmux & #screen cover that pretty well.

• If one has to login into different machines then chances are #aithentification is centralized anyway.

Needless to say #modernizations like #SystemD don't happen because people like #Poettering are "hobbyless", but because the preexisting status-quo (#SysVinit) was slow, inflexible and error-prone by strict linearity and non-parallelization.

• With a literal /etc/init file one can literally get a system to hang due to a mistake (i.e. certain call doesn't get invoked correctly), whereas on #SystemD (and competing solutions like #LaunchD on #macOS and #SMF on #Solaris) your desktop / laptop will continue to noot even if it doesn't have a network connection.

Not to mention as Benno Rice explained: 'Shit just gotmore dynamic!': We don't have that one big ass maingrame and serial terminals, instead we have laptops that may he carried around a campus or traveled with all day and that constantly switch between wireless and wired networks and have VPN tunnels open and whatnot...