http://jdebp.info/FGA/launchd-on-bsd.html
It went dormant some time in 2015, to my knowledge. I had genuinely been joking about an #XML parser in process 1 until someone went and did that.
With a shell, of course, it's the same sort of thing, with a full language parser, an interactive user interface, curses, terminfo/termcap, an editing library, command completion add-ins, and so forth, in the program for process 1.
Almost all proper process 1 programs do far less.
@bodil also #SystemD is evidently a "necessary evil" at worst, because noone accepts #SysVinit boot times measured in minutes!
Interestibgly the same folks hating systemd are loving #LaunchD & #SMF yet launchd is what inspired SystemD...
@CursedSilicon @gettie mostly because #systemD (and it's competitiors) took all the right lessions:
And basically everyone (#OpenRC, #Upstart, etc. Even #LaunchD [the #init for #macOS that is literally the SystemD but before SystemD and by Apple] and #SMF [#Sun's SystemD for #Solaris] did that to allow for boot times in secinds, not minutes…
@fabiscafe @okapi OFC @chesheer 's criticism is understandable on #FreeBSD given that #SystemD is inherenty focussed and intertwined with #Linux (just as it's Inspiration, #LaunchD, is intertwined with #macOS's Darwin/NeXTstep kernel).
And sadly there's nothing they (or anyone else) could've done unless they had multiplied suddenly and being able to keepcthe old tech stack maintainable.
OFC I wish for more diversity in solutions, but #Linux being #streamlined is what makes #portability across distros easier and boosted adoption as well as providing massive gains in solutions like #DXVK, #Proton and #Wine in general.
So, known parties tirelessly work to make Linux a new Windows. Gnome announces even harder dependency on systemd. GDM will depend on systemd userdb infrastructure. gnome-session will use systemd service manager instead of its own code that "has received very minimal attention in the 17 years since it was first written". As per article, even now they do not test Gnome in non-systemd environments. It's like a writing on the wall. https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/ #Gnome #Linux #systemd
@fabiscafe @okapi espechally in the form of an interactive desktop...
I could see it valid for multiple shell sessions, but #tmux & #screen cover that pretty well.
If one has to login into different machines then chances are #aithentification is centralized anyway.
Needless to say #modernizations like #SystemD don't happen because people like #Poettering are "hobbyless", but because the preexisting status-quo (#SysVinit) was slow, inflexible and error-prone by strict linearity and non-parallelization.
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/etc/init file one can literally get a system to hang due to a mistake (i.e. certain call doesn't get invoked correctly), whereas on #SystemD (and competing solutions like #LaunchD on #macOS and #SMF on #Solaris) your desktop / laptop will continue to noot even if it doesn't have a network connection. Not to mention as Benno Rice explained: 'Shit just gotmore dynamic!': We don't have that one big ass maingrame and serial terminals, instead we have laptops that may he carried around a campus or traveled with all day and that constantly switch between wireless and wired networks and have VPN tunnels open and whatnot...
Learn from the voice of experience when saying such things. (-:
I used to joke about someone putting an XML parser into the code for process #1, as an example of something outlandish that no-one would do.
Then one of the people who tried to port launchd to FreeBSD did exactly that.
Upstart both rose and fell in the time that it has taken even to get launchd ports to the BSDs attempted, let alone to Linux-based operating systems.
launchd leans heavily on MacOSisms.
@freya @BrodieOnLinux makes sense, ofc.
N-gated Hacker News/etc/init file for space reasons alone.Tho in fairness I'm shure #SMF did inspire #Apple to do #LaunchD which in turn was copied with #SystemD, abeit all 3 are very much centric about the Kernel and Userland they target.