Rocky
Mojo ♻️Europe’s $24T breakup with Visa & Mastercard has begun. ECB’s Lagarde warns almost all EU card/mobile payments still run on non‑European rails, sending spending data outside the EU. Now EPI + EuroPA are launching Wero, a pan‑EU wallet for 130M users to pay cross‑border without US networks. A huge shift for payment sovereignty—and data privacy.
kauer@mojo I wonder if anyone will be able to use it? Much as anyone in the world can use Visa and Mastercard.
tecHunt
Raphaël V
SamuelJohnson
~n
Human after all
Armin Hanisch@kauer @mojo Using it for months now (and across borders in the EU as intended). Besides, it builds on the existing SEPA (single european payment area) instant money transfer (10seconds from payer to payee) so yes, full adaption will take time (and needs a browser-based frontend), but building things over multiple countries and hundreds of banks isn‘t a hobbyist project exactly. 😎
Ericka Simone
Dmian 🇪🇺@ErickaSimone @mojo @dalias It’s not actually new. The pandemic made the EU realize that we were depending on a lot of foreign infrastructure and services. And the current US government made clear that former allies may not be it in the future. The EU is just trying to protect itself from catastrophes and problems it may encounter, and we want to be prepared.
@ErickaSimone @mojo @dalias There's still a long way to go. A lot of back office services (fraud protection, insurance, etc.) is still handled by Visa/Mastercard. But I think little by little EU Banks will build a domestic infrastructure. International payments are more complicated, and there US cards will still reign. But future agreements may bridge local systems. Time will tell. A more decentralized organization may be better for all (like Mastodon!) 😄
Stephen Collins@mojo @stufromoz can we have one in Australia? That said, any Australian company likely to do the work would cock it up somehow.
PonderStibbonsWe had it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankcard
"As a result of a declining cardholder base, falling transaction volumes and shrinking market share in relation to internationally accepted credit cards such as Visa and Mastercard, the card was withdrawn from use in 2006."
thedarknite@trib @mojo @stufromoz the wero system they are talking about has similarities to osko/payid that we have in Australia. But ours would need extending to use through e-commerce platforms.
Paco Hope
Duncan Bayne@mojo Can we get in on this here in Australia? 🙏
Kofzmann
François @Jura@mojo MAGA was tired of winning so EU had to help them 😂
Ronny Lam@mojo Will banks be moving away from Google and Apple pay too? Some of them had their own NFC technology, but they decided to abort it.
olderThey do. Norwegian Vipps (mentioned in the article) has launched NFC payments already this year.
But there were alternatives even before that: Samsung Pay, Swatch Pay for example.
Curve Pay is another one: https://www.curve.com/
Eat This Podcast@mojo I wonder whether my Italian bank is going to make this easy.
Otte Homan - remember Geordie
vampirdaddy
kit@vampirdaddy that’s the thing that needs to change.
Waiting for new Jolla phone, hope it will be successful:
https://techhub.social/@jolla/116301057443373813
jolla (@[email protected])
Attached: 1 image The Jolla Phone pre-orders are now ready to complete. Your pre-order made this project real and by now we have an amazing 12 000 pre-orders - wow! Only with the support of you, together with the community, have we been able to move forward, and now it is the time to move towards mass production. The Jolla Phone is getting closer to being in your hands. Pre-order holders: your payment link is ready. Choose your colour, complete your order by April 30, and lock in your delivery. Check your email for your personal order link, or reach out if you have questions. Happy sailing! #Jolla #SailfishOS #DigitalSovereignty #PrivacyFirst #CommunityPowered #European
Giuseppe Guglielmucci@vampirdaddy @mojo yes, but this would be a step in the right direction. Plus there has been more discussion around european digital soverignty
Derk-Jan 💙💛🇺🇦@vampirdaddy @mojo well.. thats a bit due to payconiq in the past focusing so much on QR codes to start transactions via an app and being the single (visible) issuer for consumers.
But iDEAL was web first (I ran the initial Rabobank experiment to make it App compatible). Web first can easily be provided, the iDEAL proxy is actually an example of that you could say.
@vampirdaddy @mojo im more concerned by all the banks moving their 2fa into iOS and Android app. That’s gonna be way harder to fix.
Also i dont like the consumer facing centralization that wero does. I liked iDEALs distributed model over the banks, but it was a big strain on banks and merchants. I guess to be a competitor to visa/mastercard/paypal, this had to be streamlined.
Klaus Vink Slott@vampirdaddy
But that's just the end user device. When the infrastructure is up and running, new frontends could be built for Jolla, Graphene, LineageOS, whatever. It merely requires the political decision that the software should be available and distributed on other platforms/appstores than the 🇺🇸 ones.
@mojo
But that's just the end user device. When the infrastructure is up and running, new frontends could be built for Jolla, Graphene, LineageOS, whatever. It merely requires the political decision that the software should be available and distributed on other platforms/appstores than the 🇺🇸 ones.
@mojo
linc@MrManor @vampirdaddy @mojo we want websites, not apps and AppStores. No need for vendor lock-in and non-open technology
Jacobo Da Riva Muñoz@mojo in Spain Bizum works really good but there's a little number of shops who use it. This must be improved
CyberPunker@mojo Unfortunately wero needs a phone (android or iphone) there is no way to use wero without an App. Depending on the App we will see how good privacy will be.
Grisha 
@mojo “without us networks”
whois $(dig +short pay.weropay.eu)|grep OrgName
OrgName: Amazon Technologies Inc.
OrgName: Amazon Technologies Inc.
OrgName: Amazon Technologies Inc.
jon saenz@JonSaenzAgirre @oxapentane Seeing Amazon there means infrastructure, not control. Bit like saying your house is owned by the power company because you use their electricity.
@mojo @JonSaenzAgirre Bad analogy. See microsoft testimony in France, calling something “soverign” when US law takes precedence from the hosting company standpoint is a big load of bullshit imo.
M Schommer
Viktoria D. Richards/Uddelhexe@mojo @JonSaenzAgirre @oxapentane
The thing is: with the US cloud act in place, the data is not safe from US interests and we have seen instances in that the US deplattform People who they don' t like, even judges, and the fact that Wero is dependant on US technologie makes it open for such deplattforming via US will.
Wero is sure a good thing i want to suceed, but using US infrastructure in a system promoted as "independent EU alternativ" is just wrong.
The USA could stop it any time.
notsoloud@mojo
If the power company is in the US and you're sanctioned, you'll have to find your own electricity. It will disappear with no warning.
If your infrastructure is on AWS and you're sanctioned, you'll have to find your own infrastructure. It will disappear with no warning.
It looks like they misunderstood the assignment.
@JonSaenzAgirre @oxapentane
Robert Böttner
Olivier Burnier@mojo It is already effective in EU countries and it works.
EU being an important world market it should spread further.
Great that it has started.
EU being an important world market it should spread further.
Great that it has started.
Blue Luma@mojo can you install the Wero app without a Google account on Android ? No cuz it's only available on the PlayStore lol
Flame
MissConstrue@mojo Ah, now I understand why the shadow banking world is crumbling. It all makes sense now.
multifact@MissConstrue @mojo Last time I checked, Wero could not be used without a proprietary smartphone app that depends on large US corporations.
If Wero is the European alternative to Visa and Mastercard, we are doomed.
@multifact I wouldn't be so pessimistic. These Wero ppl know what they are doing and why they are doing this. It will need some transition time. I'm fairly confident they will be able to offer alternative install pathways and ways to use it without Apple or google. Patience, my friend. @guille @MissConstrue @mojo
@otte_homan @guille @MissConstrue @mojo I'll start turning optmistic when it is possible to use Wero in a neutral way from a neutral device. It is already a bad sign that first iterations keep users captive of the same evil corps we are trying to escape.
Should Wero be born free, we would not need to trust in promises of future liberation. To me this is a dead end until proven otherwise.
@multifact @guille @MissConstrue @mojo Wero is targeted at the mobile phones in people's pockets now. To require people to change phones would be foolish and guaranteed to fail. The duopoly won't last forever. In 2027 Motorola (now owned by Lenovo) will ship phones running GrapheneOS (based on Android open source) which will likely run banking apps. If they don't, someone else will. The EU can also regulate to make it a requirement, like USB C. We are not doomed.
Ciourte Piaille@mojo Not a fan of mobile paiment. I have it disabled in the almost-mandatory bank app as I did for the system it's replacing. In France, we fortunately have CB available in addition to Visa or MasterCard on most cards.
Louis
Cassi
esplovago 
@mojo interesting but I see two hidden problems not tackled by this first step:
1- the big us funds (Vanguard, etc) have relevant share quotas in a lot of European banks (maybe also the ones that participate in Wero)
2- a lot of European banks and their funds (including pension ones) invest in Visa/Mastercard
In Italy there was #BANCOMAT circuit, superseded by Visa. Maybe the same happened in other EU countries.
Andreas Grois@mojo Why not take something that exists locally and make it work EU-wide?
Here in Austria we have EPS, which works in the browser. It's an API that online shops can use to interface with banks' online-banking websites.
It's simple, it's vendor-neutral, and most important: It does not need an app.
Henrik Pauli@soulsource @mojo From my understanding that's what it is — it's built on something Dutch, with France being strongly involved if I read correctly.
@soulsource @mojo There are two approaches to instant payment systems: EPI is uniting its payment systems under the Wero brand. EuroPA is just interconnecting national systems, while keeping local brands (Bizum, Bancomat, MB Way, Vipps, Blik, Dias, etc). Both systems will be interconnected, and the EuroPA system will take EPI’s Wero transactions, and vice versa. In the end, the European banking system will be more interconnected.