Mastodawn

Mate Realist Jan 4, 2023

“In #Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. Those affected receive a small apartment and counselling with no preconditions. 4 out of 5 people affected make their way back into a stable life. And all this is CHEAPER than accepting homelessness.”

Make sure everyone understands this — It’s costing us far too much to NOT provide housing and supports to those who are homeless.

https://scoop.me/housing-first-finland-homelessness/

#homelessness #cities #housing #HousingFirst

Finland ends homelessness and provides shelter for all in need - scoop.me

In Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. Why? The country applies the "Housing First" concept agains homelessness.

scoop.me

astaines Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian
The irony is that Housing First has been the (official) policy for years, but little effective has been done to make it real.
We have no idea of how to do effective policy implementation in Ireland.

fmc01 Jan 3, 2023

@astaines @[email protected] As in Australia - it is not that “we have no idea” but more like “we gave no desire” to do anything about public housing

Taco Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian the people in that part of the world have this whole civilization thing figured out. I would really love to live there some day.

Eleanor Rylance 🔶🌍🌳🇬🇧🇫🇷🇪🇺Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian isn’t it just so like a bunch of bullies to kick someone when they’re down, and to keep kicking them whilst telling onlookers that the person is perfectly free to get up, but they just lack the motivation.

Violet Madder Jan 3, 2023

@EleanorRylance @BrentToderian "Quit hitting yourself, quit hitting yourself!"

Mikko Alasaarela Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian In Finland, you will freeze to death in the winter if you don't have a warm place to sleep. As long as I have been alive, it has been a priority for the government to provide everyone a warm place to sleep, no matter what.

Sabaheta Ramčilović-Suominen Jan 2, 2023

@alasaarela @BrentToderian

Plus Finland is quite stingy (read not very fair or humane) when it comes to accepting refugees and asylum seekers, and with its rather modest population of less than 6 million people, "housing for all" is not a great stretch of its budget.

Dr. Traci Birge, 🌻agroecology Jan 3, 2023

@JustSaba @alasaarela @BrentToderian yes regarding immigration/refugees, but I’ve never understood this low population argument. low population also means fewer taxpayers, especially with an aging population. It is a wuestion of priorities.

𒎏Taliaお姉さん 💜 🏳️‍⚧️Jan 3, 2023

@JustSaba Population size is kind of irrelevant though? If you have more homeless people, but also more tax payers, your proportion stays the same.

Susan Kiddie Jan 3, 2023

@JustSaba @alasaarela @BrentToderian

"not a great stretch of its budget"

If you can't manage to think of housing unhoused people in human terms, if you must make it an economic consideration, then let's talk about the *fact* that it is cheaper to house people than to police, incarcerate, hospitalize or "shelter" them. Hands down. Categorically.

Scot Close Jan 3, 2023

@JustSaba @alasaarela @BrentToderian If a country of 6 million can do it, a US city or state should be able to.

fmc01 Jan 3, 2023

@JustSaba @alasaarela @BrentToderian True but there are wealthier countries that don’t give a damn - how many people do you suppose really died during the cold snap inthe USA - certainly more than official figures of 62 - this from a country that let 1’.1 million die from Covid. On the housing issue - well done Finland

ChuS 水 Jan 3, 2023

@alasaarela @BrentToderian That can happen in Spain too. The warm Spain. The holidays destination. In fact, it happens. It must be a priority all around the world.

Gen X-Wing Jan 3, 2023

@alasaarela @BrentToderian Welcome to Minnesota, it’s real damn cold here during winter and we have a lot of homeless people.

We could do well to copy Finland, in more ways than one.

Mikko Alasaarela Jan 3, 2023

@breadbin @BrentToderian I'm sorry to hear. I used to live in SF Bay Area in California, and visited Minnesota from there. you have a lot of Finnish heritage there!

Gen X-Wing Jan 3, 2023

@alasaarela @BrentToderian I even have direct Finnish heritage (my maternal Grandmother) and grew up in Sweden. So I’ve seen “both sides”.

Even been to Finland a bunch of times, even if it has been a very long time now:)

anna_lillith 🇺🇦🌱🐖Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian that's fantastic!

Kimberly Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian The US needs to do that! 🙄🤬

Lynn McAlister UE

@BrentToderian In the US, we're not interested in housing the homeless. We need homeless people to perpetuate the national lie that the obscenely wealthy have earned their money, and the poor are morally inferior and so deserve their misery.

Ⓒⓡⓨⓢⓢⓘ Jan 3, 2023

@lmgenealogy @BrentToderian exactly this. 😑I hate it here so much sometimes…

Godfrey642 Feb 9, 2023

@lmgenealogy @BrentToderian Theres also the myth that ppl who are poor and struggling are lazy ( weird as so many work 2-3 jobs) and the wealthy are hard working (weird as so many spend time in gyms, on golf courses or other self nurturing pursuits).

Wealth is often inherited in the first instance. Invested or grown in markets and through lucrative tax breaks. Not necessarily the fruits of hard labour at all.

Lynn McAlister UE

@Godfrey642 @BrentToderian The thing that astounds me is that people believe this - not only the wealthy, who take their wealth as proof of their superiority, but an awful lot of those who strive to be like them.

Godfrey642 Feb 10, 2023

@lmgenealogy @BrentToderian Absolutely. And the sad thing is that almost everyone, if given the chance, would choose to be wealthy - just like them. And worse, would behave with their money, just like them.

Lynn McAlister UE

@Godfrey642 @BrentToderian Most of us have been convinced - intentionally - by our commodified society that we always need more, more, more. Life will be so much better if we just have that one more (usually expensive) thing. It's poisonous. I like that prayer asking God to let us have just enough to not be in need, and no more. Can you imagine if we all strove for that?

Godfrey642 Feb 11, 2023

@lmgenealogy @BrentToderian Ppls ideas of their "need" vary hugely. Celebrities would say they need another mansion to be happy. Elon Musk would no doubt say he needs another flight into space... I don't believe in any god bc i see too much corruption in all the world faiths and corrupting of humanity and purpose. People excusing their dismally poor ethical behaviour bc god told them to do it.

We should be on this planet to care for each other; see others' needs and help them until a point where they can make their way. So much of life comes down to luck. Where you were born, to whom, and when.

I look at babies being pulled out from under rubble in Turkey and Syria. Their need is so huge but still oligarchs don't come forward to share.

Prokofy Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian OK, Finland! We have 23,000 in NYC alone in shelters every night...

Darren du Nord Jan 2, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian my heritage is #Norwegian, but I could be very proud to be #Finnish.

Prokofy Jan 2, 2023

@darren @BrentToderian A book in part about Finland

https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Paradise-Russian-Dissidents-Journey/dp/168053484X

Darren du Nord Jan 2, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian thanks!

Kyle Rose Jan 2, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian I wonder if there's enough vacant square footage to provide *housing* not just shelter for those 23,000.
What are the costs from those 23,000 people being unhoused an who are those costs paid to?

Prokofy Jan 2, 2023

@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian The city maintains shelters and hotels for the homeless that are paid for by tax dollars. Great to simplify the problem of homelessness as not having a home but often there is a cluster of complex problems that you can't ignore. Working people don't have affordable homes in NYC so it's an even greater complex problem than solutions from other countries would seem to provide.

Kyle Rose Jan 2, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian it sounds like their employers are vastly benefitting from this situation by not having to pay them enough to have housing

Madam Zim Jan 3, 2023

@bobo_of_id @prokofy @BrentToderian

There's an excellent recent video by KGW here in Oregon that features this exact situation. A MANAGER at a CVS drugstore is homeless and has been for a decade.

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@eekpij @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian I know a postal worker who lived out of his car in various parking lots for years. It's common. Raising minimum wage is one avenue towards a solution but that in itself can drive up costs.

Kyle Rose Jan 3, 2023

@prokofy @eekpij @BrentToderian the costs are already high, the cost to these people's lives, the cost to society in general, it may not be a price tag or the number in the corner of a stamp, but the cost of poverty is high. The only ones who benefit from is are those who perpetuate it.

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@bobo_of_id @eekpij @BrentToderian The idea that there are evil, cunning, grasping capitalists exploiting poor people is compelling, yes. Good luck with really solving problems with this paradigm.

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian Not all the employers are evil giant corporations. Life is more complex.

Kyle Rose Jan 3, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian even small employers, or those engaged in noble causes, are not entitled to someone's labor for less money than it takes to be alive. Any gap there has to be made up by someone. Now if we had a universal basic income, and the necessities of life were already covered, then it would make sense. But we aren't in that situation

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian It''s unlikely that anyone will pay the "universal basic income" or that a liberal democratic society will vote for this kind of society, it's not realistic. It's not that employers, small or large, are necessarily "entitled"; it's that they live in a world of real expenses that you may not live in. Have you ever run a business? Have you ever worked in a store? The world is more complex than the notion of "the Man" against "the little guy".

Kyle Rose Jan 3, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian I know their expenses are real, their employees are one of those expenses.
If they can't pay them enough to be alive, who's closing that gap? Because it's getting closed one way or another. Right now it's getting closed poorly with a mixture of society paying and the employee dying slowly in poverty.
It being complex doesn't make it not exploitation, it's just complex exploitation.

Jasmine Feb 9, 2023

@prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian

🥾👅

Darwin Woodka Jan 3, 2023

@prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian not just shelter costs, think health care costs when they're hospitalized, law enforcement costs when they're jailed, social services, etc, etc...

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@darwinwoodka @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian If you are mentally ill or a drug addict, you'll be back in the hands of law enforcement and social services soon enough, even with a home.

vurpo 🏳️‍⚧️ (2869)Jan 3, 2023

@darwinwoodka @prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian All research points to the fact that you can get out of those kinds of spirals when you have a solid base to found your life on, i.e. a home and adequate help. Instead you want to jail someone for being poor and then complain about how much it costs to jail them?

Prokofy Jan 3, 2023

@vurpo @darwinwoodka @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian I'm not in charge of jailing people, but thanks for the sentiment. I think likely you are selective in your perceptions and have no idea what it is truly like to deal with a person with mental illness. From my observations, and I'm not alone in this, people aren't "jailed for being poor," although criminal suspects with mental illness do indeed end up in jail for lack of better and more expensive alternatives. Mandatory residential treatment needed

Kyle Rose Jan 3, 2023

@prokofy @BrentToderian I am not trying to be reductive here, I know there are more problems. But those other problems are easier to manage when you have dealt with the housing first.

Bluedotmo Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian I've heard that our system of punishing, and even incarceration costs the US much more than if we just did THIS.

The problem is that we take delight in punishing those we feel aren't deserving.

Darwin Woodka Jan 3, 2023

@bluedotmo @BrentToderian yup, my homeless nephew was jailed over 250 times within about ten years. He was killed in 2021 crossing the street, got to spend the last two weeks of his life in hospice care. Unconscious so he couldn't enjoy it, but society finally thought he "deserved" a bed in a nice room.

Bluedotmo Jan 3, 2023

@darwinwoodka @BrentToderian all of that is horrible. I'm so sorry.

Godfrey642 Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian Brilliant brilliant post. Thank you for sharing.
#auspol

Worst Case Scenario Jan 2, 2023

Flüpke Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian this should be done regardless of money savings. Basic human decency requires us to provide shelter and healthcare to anyone.

Dan, the US is the threat!Jan 2, 2023

@BrentToderian Some Red States solution is to criminalize homelesness and enslave the homeless in private penitentiaries! 🙄

Darwin Woodka Jan 3, 2023

@WastelandWandrr @BrentToderian which costs FAR more than just housing them.

Molly in Missouri Jan 3, 2023

@BrentToderian In my state of Missouri, the governor and legislature proudly signed laws making it a penalized crime for people experiencing homelessness to camp on public property. Also, outlawed cities allocating state funds to permanent housing for the unsheltered, and instead requires us to focus *only* on temporary crisis shelter. Its inhuman but gerrymandered districts guarantee the right will have its way, even tho they are now outnumbered.
#GeneralStrike and #Boycott for #HumanRights?!

Mark Jan 3, 2023

@BrentToderian keep in mind that the entire country of Finland has about half as many people as just New York City.

This is a very difficult problem at scale but certainly worth trying.

Nelson SVG James Jan 3, 2023

LibertyForward1 Jan 3, 2023

@BrentToderian Yes but how can the parasitic sociopaths siphon funds from it for private gain?