Brent ToderianJan 2, 2023

“In #Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. Those affected receive a small apartment and counselling with no preconditions. 4 out of 5 people affected make their way back into a stable life. And all this is CHEAPER than accepting homelessness.”

Make sure everyone understands this — It’s costing us far too much to NOT provide housing and supports to those who are homeless.

https://scoop.me/housing-first-finland-homelessness/

#homelessness #cities #housing #HousingFirst

Finland ends homelessness and provides shelter for all in need - scoop.me

In Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. Why? The country applies the "Housing First" concept agains homelessness.

scoop.me
Show threadProkofyJan 2, 2023
@BrentToderian OK, Finland! We have 23,000 in NYC alone in shelters every night...
Show threadKyle Rose
@prokofy @BrentToderian I wonder if there's enough vacant square footage to provide *housing* not just shelter for those 23,000.
What are the costs from those 23,000 people being unhoused an who are those costs paid to?
Jan 2, 2023 at 11:10pmWeb
Show threadProkofyJan 2, 2023
@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian The city maintains shelters and hotels for the homeless that are paid for by tax dollars. Great to simplify the problem of homelessness as not having a home but often there is a cluster of complex problems that you can't ignore. Working people don't have affordable homes in NYC so it's an even greater complex problem than solutions from other countries would seem to provide.
Show threadKyle RoseJan 2, 2023
@prokofy @BrentToderian it sounds like their employers are vastly benefitting from this situation by not having to pay them enough to have housing
Show threadMadam ZimJan 3, 2023

@bobo_of_id @prokofy @BrentToderian

There's an excellent recent video by KGW here in Oregon that features this exact situation. A MANAGER at a CVS drugstore is homeless and has been for a decade.

Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@eekpij @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian I know a postal worker who lived out of his car in various parking lots for years. It's common. Raising minimum wage is one avenue towards a solution but that in itself can drive up costs.
Show threadKyle RoseJan 3, 2023
@prokofy @eekpij @BrentToderian the costs are already high, the cost to these people's lives, the cost to society in general, it may not be a price tag or the number in the corner of a stamp, but the cost of poverty is high. The only ones who benefit from is are those who perpetuate it.
Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@bobo_of_id @eekpij @BrentToderian The idea that there are evil, cunning, grasping capitalists exploiting poor people is compelling, yes. Good luck with really solving problems with this paradigm.
Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian Not all the employers are evil giant corporations. Life is more complex.
Show threadKyle RoseJan 3, 2023
@prokofy @BrentToderian even small employers, or those engaged in noble causes, are not entitled to someone's labor for less money than it takes to be alive. Any gap there has to be made up by someone. Now if we had a universal basic income, and the necessities of life were already covered, then it would make sense. But we aren't in that situation
Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@bobo_of_id @BrentToderian It''s unlikely that anyone will pay the "universal basic income" or that a liberal democratic society will vote for this kind of society, it's not realistic. It's not that employers, small or large, are necessarily "entitled"; it's that they live in a world of real expenses that you may not live in. Have you ever run a business? Have you ever worked in a store? The world is more complex than the notion of "the Man" against "the little guy".
Show threadKyle RoseJan 3, 2023
@prokofy @BrentToderian I know their expenses are real, their employees are one of those expenses.
If they can't pay them enough to be alive, who's closing that gap? Because it's getting closed one way or another. Right now it's getting closed poorly with a mixture of society paying and the employee dying slowly in poverty.
It being complex doesn't make it not exploitation, it's just complex exploitation.
Show threadJasmineFeb 9, 2023

@prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian

🥾👅

Show threadDarwin WoodkaJan 3, 2023
@prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian not just shelter costs, think health care costs when they're hospitalized, law enforcement costs when they're jailed, social services, etc, etc...
Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@darwinwoodka @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian If you are mentally ill or a drug addict, you'll be back in the hands of law enforcement and social services soon enough, even with a home.
Show threadvurpo 🏳️‍⚧️ (2869)Jan 3, 2023
@darwinwoodka @prokofy @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian All research points to the fact that you can get out of those kinds of spirals when you have a solid base to found your life on, i.e. a home and adequate help. Instead you want to jail someone for being poor and then complain about how much it costs to jail them?
Show threadProkofyJan 3, 2023
@vurpo @darwinwoodka @bobo_of_id @BrentToderian I'm not in charge of jailing people, but thanks for the sentiment. I think likely you are selective in your perceptions and have no idea what it is truly like to deal with a person with mental illness. From my observations, and I'm not alone in this, people aren't "jailed for being poor," although criminal suspects with mental illness do indeed end up in jail for lack of better and more expensive alternatives. Mandatory residential treatment needed
Show threadKyle RoseJan 3, 2023
@prokofy @BrentToderian I am not trying to be reductive here, I know there are more problems. But those other problems are easier to manage when you have dealt with the housing first.