well this is the scariest thing my work computer has ever done. I didn’t even know it was structurally possible for popup windows to appear over the Windows Update screen

to my genuine but relieved surprise, it still booted after this.

what's truly mystifying, however, is how the Dell firmware manages to have two or three ⚠️Critical⚠️ bios updates a week. I understand neither where they're all coming from nor how Dell sustains such a rapid release cycle of high-risk firmware patches long-term.

@0xabad1dea I have a Lenovo that did something like 7 bios updates in the same day, laptop was disconnected for a while, but instead of doing last one windows update makes it step each one at a time.

Also if you had a critical error before it's a good idea to do a sfc /scannow I was sceptic before but that command fixs a lot of corrupted files all the time.

@0xabad1dea those firmware updates give me a great excuse to do nothing for several minutes while it updates & reboots, which perhaps the firmware writers also appreciate
@0xabad1dea yeah, now I remember that in Big Corporate we've had Dell firmware updates quite often (whitelabeled by the corporate though)
@0xabad1dea This is interesting, I use linux on my Dell, so does my better half and there's no firmware updates unless we say so ☺️
@Iloo I'm confused why you think that's different from Windows? the updates exist whether you choose to install them or not, in either case
@0xabad1dea I don't get them automatically, if I want them I can do them as needed in the time that is convenient for me, which means I get to decided what my laptop is doing at any given time not the other way around ☺️
@Iloo please turn down your sunny evangelization rays for a moment so you can hear me repeat that is not in any way different from how it works on Windows
Microsoft will let you pause Windows Updates indefinitely, 35 days at a time

Microsoft is rolling out changes to Windows Update that will let users pause updates for 35 days at a time and repeat the pause as many times as they want.

The Verge

@0xabad1dea @Iloo So you can decide to never install an available Windows update? Or are you talking only about firmware updates specifically?

My partner's Windows system seems to update itself. The only control seems to be that you can defer it a few times, but eventually it happens regardless. Most of the time it happens when noone is watching, and without asking whether it is OK to do so.

Are we missing some simple setting?

@kauer @Iloo I'm talking about Dell firmware updates. Blocking Windows updates is harder. In particular, if you are using a home license, they don't consider you smart enough to make an informed decision on the matter.

Apparently one trick is to lie to Windows that your home wifi connection is "metered", that is, charged by the megabyte, as it won't download updates in the background while metered. However, this may cause other apps to also stop doing what you expect them to do in the background.

@0xabad1dea @Iloo Thanks. I thought that was the case.
@0xabad1dea Such error message can cause fear to an experienced system administrator ...
@0xabad1dea We had two "new" Dell tower computers delivered decades ago (it seems). The monitor was used and I wanted to send it back since I paid for "new". They refused. When Dell kept crapping out, we finally went to Macs. I hate the rapid-stupid "modification" updates. Do people even test anymore?

@0xabad1dea ooooo Dell firmware story time.

Back when I worked IT we had an hardware refresh cycle which involved issuing out a bunch of brand new Dell all in ones. Part way through this cycle though the network started to choke, networking spent a LOT of time trying to debug what the hell was bringing down the network, while we continued to roll out the AIOs to the different workspaces.

@0xabad1dea Well, part way through this refresh cycle Dell released a firmware update. Turns out there was a bug in their wake on lan feature where, when the AIOs were put into sleep mode, they'd start pinging EVERY device on the network looking for a wakeup call. We had rolled out hundreds of these AIOs that were now DDOSing our own network due to this bug.
@0xabad1dea and this was before Dell had any sort of auto updater for their firmware, so to fix this issue we all got issued USB sticks with the updated BIOS on it and had to go back out and manually update every single AIO that was previously issued.
@0xabad1dea I found it mystifying that Dell purchased the quest tools and then ran then intuitive the ground by don't no real work on them for about 10 years or so. (They were the bees knees tools for active directory migrations, could charge anything they wanted). Maybe this is two sides of the same coin?
@0xabad1dea Possibly they are updating "trusted" boot signatures? I seem to recall that being a thing...
@0xabad1dea my bad I misunderstood that these are forced on you automatically, assumed the os was the culprit and genuinely found it was interesting. No evangelism was intended and I'm truly sorry if that was the vibe you got.
@0xabad1dea I had a Dell system once, that always said there was a firmware update. I would run Dell's tool, it would say "install success, rebooting" then after reboot the icon in the Windows taskbar would show an update pending and it would be the update that had just "installed successfully". No matter what method I tried to use to perform the firmware update, it would always do the "success" and then reboot to "update required".
@0xabad1dea I am sorry that the malware quarantine failed.

@0xabad1dea Earlier this year there was a Windows bug that caused some computers to immediately boot back up after shutting down, and this caused the Dell updater on my laptop to repeatedly install the same BIOS update without ever getting to the part where it updates the flash ROM.

Edit: I think the shutdown bug was caused by the KB5073455 update.

@0xabad1dea wow that looks like an impressive fuckup, hope the system isn't rendered completely unusable.
@0xabad1dea that's so bad it's art.
@0xabad1dea that procedure entry point definitely got staged
@0xabad1dea I've had popups caused by bad Logitech software show up like that in the past

@0xabad1dea computers can do anything these days! Truly amazing

real talk I think the update screen is just a full screen application. I managed to tab out of it this one time

@ember @0xabad1dea I wonder if shift-f10 works there like it does in the installer / preboot
@0xabad1dea that is NtRaiseHardError, and win32 is all up and running to display the login screen which displays that progress, i think the scariest thing about this is that it failed to launch werfault which means something crashed
@0xabad1dea oh yeah Signal always pops up a window like this with a memory fault error when I power off my Windows install ​
@0xabad1dea I had the same happen to me, I think it was msteams crashing while it wanted to shut down, and getting some kind of nullpointer thing.
@0xabad1dea oh, it can appear over the early boot screen as well. Source: one time Windows 10 would keep failing to install properly on an old laptop and every time I tried it would have a popup in the early boot sequence
@0xabad1dea I just realised it was a WerFault. That means it will go back to normal as soon as the moon sets or goes behind a cloud.

@kauer

WerFault? Ther! Ther fault! [points at screen] 🌕️

@0xabad1dea

@0xabad1dea good material for a computing creepy pasta
@0xabad1dea Microsoft overplayed its hand with me... It can BSOD during updates and I'll just turn it off and on until it works again. Not even worth worrying about. Not that it does it often, but it's truly the "it just does that sometimes" operating system.
@0xabad1dea
It's not even that an error occurred during a Windows update. That can happen. E.g. disk full. But the error is that a function doesn't exist in a dll. Like the dll has not been updated to the version needed to install the update.
@0xabad1dea wait, "WerFault", as in Windows Error Reporter? As in, something broke, and then the thing that's supposed to respond to things breaking, also broke? Yeah, that would scare me too...

@0xabad1dea as it turns out, (I think!)
the update screen is just a cover over the top of the desktop
the updates could download and install without that screen, but it is a good feedback indicator

I'm pretty sure this is how error windows can still appear like it did for you
its just a program (tm)

from what I read, some blue screens are this way, too

@0xabad1dea Windows server installed with “no UI” can be connected via RDP and renders a terminal window (with borders, title bar and so on) 😳
@lennybacon I guess that's not that surprising; the thing about RDP is that it's very network-efficient because it sends the raw API calls for rendering rather than the rendered bitmap, which means that being able to render Windows is the client's responsibility. Hence, the amount of code needed on the server's side to send the API calls for rendering a basic terminal should be pretty lightweight and not depend on there being a graphics card, etc.
@lennybacon @0xabad1dea You see the exact same thing if you connect a monitor locally (or if you run it in a VM).

@0xabad1dea @catsalad

Oh…yah…i’ve seen things like this.

@0xabad1dea if its not a blue screen its just a windows application afaik. stuff can pop up over it.
@0xabad1dea did you run this update during a full moon?
@0xabad1dea ...on windows nothing can be said to be certain, except pop-ups and updates.
@0xabad1dea never had that happen to me, but the scariest thing my work computer (which was also my old personal laptop) one day hit a Windows auto-update and went into that blue screen spinning thing and just... would not finish. For hours. And we all know how risky it is to turn a computer off mid-update.

Turns out the laptop was hardware incompatible with some of the new Win10 updated drivers. I would have to compile a custom kernel with the correct drivers and reinstall it from scratch. I opted to buy a new laptop, since that one was already pretty old.

That laptop is also this same one I'm typing from, with Linux Mint now. HP laptop from 2013, still going strong.
@0xabad1dea has it been bitten on a full moon

@0xabad1dea since Werewolf jokes are already covered, lemmy do a bad German pun on that:

WerFault? DuFaulst!

@0xabad1dea

well this is the scariest thing my work computer has ever done. I didn’t even know it was structurally possible for popup windows to appear over the Windows Update screen

Time to install a decent operating system.

Linux or BSD.

I have found Linux far easier to understand and it shows windoze up as what it is.

Pre installed malware.

@Kerplunk imagine if I specifically said this is my work computer. for my job. that I am required to use if I want to eat. not my personal computer.

imagine if the reason I specifically said it was my work computer was in a clearly vain attempt to forestall exactly this exact sort of extremely annoying, unhelpful, unwelcome reply that makes you seem eminently blockable.

I am begging you not to @ strangers like this. Please. For the love of gods. Stop.

@0xabad1dea @Kerplunk Linuxplaining

Edited for unintended space

@0xabad1dea
@Kerplunk imagine if I specifically said this is my work computer. for my job. that I am required to use if I want to eat. not my personal computer.

abadidea,

if you want to block me for promoting a change to a sane operating system that is not controlled by trumpisstan just go ahead.

In the last company I worked for the change to Linux saved money in the first year despite initial investment and training cost, reduced down time at workplaces to near nil. Savings continue.

@0xabad1dea You: How is there a popup here 😱
Me: The crash dump reporter handler crashed! 😱