gwenhMar 14
Windy city

Is this the first time a major service has removed end-to-end encryption instead of adding it? Why Instagram?

#instagram #socialmedia #privacy #infosec #technology #enshittification

Mar 13 at 12:13pmWeb
Show threadPrivacyMattersMar 13
@pheonix "For the children"
Show threadXavier «X» Santolaria  Mar 13
@pheonix For real???
Show threadWindy cityMar 13

@0x58 Yeah.

https://help.instagram.com/491565145294150

Help Center

End-to-end encryption adds extra security and protection to your messages and calls in a chat so that only you and whoever you're talking to can see, hear or read them.

Show threadXavier «X» Santolaria  Mar 13
@pheonix WT....
Show threadAleryminMar 13
@pheonix there was e2ee ?
Show threadshadowwwindMar 13
@Alerymin @pheonix not for long, since december 2023 https://about.fb.com/news/2023/12/default-end-to-end-encryption-on-messenger/
Launching Default End-to-End Encryption on Messenger

We're rolling out end-to-end encryption for all personal chats and calls on Messenger and Facebook, making them even more private and secure.

Meta Newsroom
Show threadAleryminMar 13
@shadowwwind @pheonix oh, I already stopped insta back then
Show threadpolyfloydMar 13
@pheonix Because they can
Show threadUrzlMar 13

@pheonix They're done leaving money on the table. Surveiling your every waking moment and conversation is too lucrative for any commercial entity to resist.

The ID verification shit under cover of "save the children" is just more capitulation by the regulators to market demand for more and more granular surveillance data.

Show threadWindy cityMar 13

@gooba42 Hit the nail on the head regarding the underlying data economics.

Not to sound like a conspiracy person but with the current industry arms race for LLM training pipelines, keeping petabytes of chat history cryptographically opaque was probably deemed an unacceptable opportunity cost lol 😭

Show threadJaneraTicianoMar 13
@pheonix the answer seems pretty obvious.
Show threadCD CastilloMar 13
@pheonix @pheonix @DavidNielsen To better spy on you, I’d venture.
Show threadSir David NielsenMar 13

@neurologo @pheonix that is always a Meta preference, however I wouldn’t count out sucking up to Cheeto Hitler either.

WhatsApp is next, give it a few weeks.

Show threadgunstickMar 13
@DavidNielsen @neurologo @pheonix Telegram is already not encrypted, but millions use it. So why should whatsapp encrypt?
Show threadAlex HyettMar 13
@pheonix how is the government ever going to protect the children if it can’t read all of your messages easily.
Show threadTzimisce FleshMar 13
@pheonix As a wise woman once said, "come on, you know why".
Show threadSabrina Web  📎Mar 13
@pheonix because Zuck
Show threadSafigoMar 13

@pheonix I was always surprised that #Meta decided to add it in the first place.

#E2EE has its own complications the vast majority of people don’t want to deal with. And most importantly, most of their users don’t worry about that at all. They want fast and searchable history and a communication.

Show threadDanny Boling ☮️Mar 13

@safigo

I'm genuinely curious: what about E2EE is complicated to the vast majority of people? Isn't it mostly transparent to the user nowadays?

@pheonix

Show threadshadowwwindMar 13
@IAmDannyBoling @safigo @pheonix losing your private key. Or that losing your password means losing all messages. Its not the norm. And I now have heard of multiple people losing their signal message history when simply switching phones.
It does have its issues.
Show threadDanny Boling ☮️Mar 13

@shadowwwind

Thanks! I guess I've been lucky and sheltered so far.

@safigo @pheonix

Show threadSafigoMar 13

@IAmDannyBoling @pheonix You’re right, on a high level, it should be a transparent solution for users. However, there are some caveats with it:

* If it’s a truly E2EE solution, you can’t restore your password through email or sign in via email verification. The sign-in process must involve a secret or synchronization between devices (if there are any). The downside is losing your history, which includes the lost password and devices.
* There’s no good search functionality. All FTS solutions should be executed on the client side, which means downloading all the history of messages. If you’ve used a service for years, it could be gigabytes, which is unreasonable for many devices, especially browsers.
* The UI will be slow due to client-side decryption, especially in browsers.
* It’s also quite challenging to stream videos without fully downloading them, not everyone has 5G everywhere with unlimited traffic. Media cannot be compressed on a server. (If you have a bad internet connection, a server can compress an image from 20K to HD. Since you don’t need better quality on your mobile, keep it at 20K for your large screen on desktop).

These are just high-level considerations.

Show threadDanny Boling ☮️Mar 13

@safigo

Thank you for the explanations. I guess I'm atypical for most things here. I don't do much video or searching thru messages. But I know others do and can understand the problems better now. Thanks again!

@pheonix

Show threadlucaMar 13
@pheonix The farce lasted enough.
It's easier collecting your data without the boring hassle of pretending the counter.
Show threadSassinake!Mar 13
@pheonix
Show threadSamir Al-BattranMar 13
@pheonix lol
Show threadmc.flyMar 13

@pheonix in short: money. In a bit longer: so they are able to auction off your enriched profile for advertisements

But I guess you did know this already

Show threadKIP/JΛYCHØU ⁂ ⚡   Mar 13
@pheonix I’ve never heard of Instagram having E2EE lmao
Show threadStefan Baur 8 * 💉Mar 13
@pheonix So they can train their LLMs on your content and serve you targeted ads, what else?
Show threadmanuMar 13
@pheonix wait, who is this "read chats" button for? 😅
Show threadZelda the princess 👑🧶Mar 13
@pheonix I've turned the news into something positive 🤷‍♀️
Show threadDirk SchoemakersMar 13
@pheonix pretty obvious. Analyze conversation data to „improve your experience“
Show threadJohn BurnsMar 13

@pheonix

Simple - they grew tired of responding to subpoena's -- so removing encryption just makes it open to anyone - meaning law enforcement...

Cue layoffs to folks that had to respond to those subpoenas.

#WildGuess

Show threadGerard Cunningham ✒️Mar 13
@pheonix surveillance and advertising,but I repeat myself.
Show threadgrrl_aexMar 13

@pheonix

For more "human" to scrape of course! How else can our robot pals keep current with our intimate speech patterns and word use?

Show threadKevin RussellMar 13

@pheonix

Tchump, the international Oligarch's king of america told Zuckerberg to.

Show threadComputerNut43Mar 13
@pheonix annnnnd im done
Show threadDave Wilburn Mar 13

@pheonix

I assume Meta is ditching E2EE for Instagram DM because they're folding under pressure from various governments demanding they self-police CSAM, extremism, scams, and other contraband on their platforms. And those problems are real, even if the proposed solution of ditching E2EE is absolute madness for a free society.

It's not terribly surprising, especially for a profit-driven company whose business model revolves around online surveillance to drive advertising revenue, and for whom secure direct messages are at best a secondary feature that produces no revenue and generates a lot of hassle for their mods and lawyers.

My prediction is that we'll see a general trend of for-profit companies abandoning E2EE, and especially those running social media platforms. It's all down-side for them. The clock is probably already ticking for WhatsApp, too.

The future is exclusively open source like @signalapp and @VeilidNetwork. Everything else is just a dead man walking.

Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Mar 13
@pheonix @lennart So they can spy on "private" conversations and sell data to the highest bidder?
Show threadacbMar 13
@pheonix Presumably they need the data points from analysing everyone’s chats for age-verification/KYC requirements, and also to improve ad targeting and engagement farming.
Show threadCome On Giant Asteroid!Mar 13

@pheonix

Surveillance is hard when you have to decrypt everything.

Show threadBenedikt WiMar 13
@pheonix Years ago Facebook (and Gmail) was usable using XMPP, which supports E2EE.
Show threadbufalo1973Mar 13
@pheonix are you surprised, being it part of Meta?
Show threadmauvehed 🐿️ (KØMVH)Mar 13
@pheonix Why? Because it's Meta..
Show threadChucklesMar 13
@pheonix now that content moderation is dead Zuck wants to maximize advertising and fascist surveillance
Show threadtootbruteMar 14

@pheonix cause at this point they own their users. They are hooked.

Also enshittification. Gotta put sweet sweet ads in there.

Show threadHolgintheairMar 14
@pheonix
easiest prey target group.
If they eat it, others will follow.
Show threadfcatMar 15
@pheonix As if the "E2EE" wasn't already compromised by them. "Oh no, Facebook is killing privacy on Instagram... Oh no, I'll move to WhatsApp then..."