gwentlarryFeb 28
Emeritus Prof Christopher May

Apologies, I was not going to post anymore on Thursday's by-election.... but I've just read this comment by an un-named Labour ministersin the FT:

'A Green victory is easily the worst outcome'....

NO!!!!: a ReformUK Ltd win would have been the worst outcome... the very idea that Labour could see Hannah Spencer's victory as worse than Matthew Goodwin & Reform winning pretty much sums up the problem with the Labour Party!

#politics #Greens #GortonAnd Denton

Feb 28 at 9:42amWeb
Show threadChucklesFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 18 months in and Labour has already abandoned its principles. Of course they're panicking.
Show threadWalrus 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Feb 28

@celeduc @ChrisMayLA6

They had already abandoned those when I left, over 30 years ago.

Show threadAndy DeardenFeb 28
@Walrus @celeduc @ChrisMayLA6 they held a special conference specificaĺly to abandon their principles.
Show threadChucklesFeb 28

@Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 New Labour! Third Way! Red Dogs! It was remarkable how the US Dems and Labour sold out in lockstep. Blair/Clinton used to maintain a thin pretense of leftism over their rapacious neoliberalism, but neither party can be bothered to even *gesture* to its base anymore.

I argue that Labour is now to the right of Boris Johnson's government: climate, economy, immigration, health, and gender scrutiny madness.

Here's hoping the lot of them fucks off to Dubai, like Spain's ex-king.

Show threadusmu 🍋🏳️‍🌈🤟Feb 28

@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6
A bit more niche, but the Dutch labor party (PvdA) did exactly the same thing in the 90s and have now merged with the Greens (Groen Links) because they got punished for it hard and went from coalition partner to small opposition party. Not a fan of that, because it causes a lack of diversity of left wing parties, but it is what it is.

Edit: spelling error

Show threadGerrit 🇪🇺🌍🍉🔻Feb 28

@usmu @celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6

Yes, and the Dutch Greens unfortunately agreed to that merge. Now they are not attractive to left voters, nor to right voters and are left drifting in an impossible split having aimed for a mostly empty center.

Show threadedwin ijsmanMar 1
@usmu @celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 Wim Kok and his PvdA preceded Tony Blair's 'New Labour' in it's 'Third way' approach in the 1990's.
While he was lauded at the time, I think the loss of ideology has proven to be a big mistake now. When I see the merged Labour/Greens party in the Netherlands, it just feels like an uneasy mix of 'my grandma's party' and the 'Grachtengordel' (Amsterdam elitist) left.
Show threadGeorge BFeb 28

@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6

Interesting that both Tony Blair and Bill Clinton both had a lot of contact with Epstein at around that time. It's wild how much garbage is tied together.

Show threadChucklesFeb 28
@gbargoud @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 it's all obvious in retrospect (as usual)
Show threadChucklesFeb 28

@gbargoud @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 Reagan, Thatcher, and the fall of the USSR cleared the way for this vile orgy of the ultra wealthy consuming the earth. The subsequent neoliberal politicians were just ushers passing out towelettes and receiving gratuities.

Some gratuities were peerages, board memberships, juicy speaking gigs, even juicier book deals, and then some of those gratuities were invitations to the literal Trump-Epstein orgies of child rape.

Show threadUnredacted Epstein files nowFeb 28
@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 Absolutely.
Show threadChucklesFeb 28

Juan Carlos Borbó aka "Juan Carlos I" (and hopefully last) is actually in Abu Dhabi.

Must be dull with no elephants or younger brothers to murder.

Show threadChucklesFeb 28
Given that the UAE is under air attack (presumably by Iran but who knows at this point) I guess there's hope that the ex-king's day might become very exciting.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Feb 28
@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 New Zealand Labour were the Thatcherite party in the 1980s, right of anything we had ever seen. Sadly we were the poster child for neoliberalism, and we are still paying the price for it.
Show threadNorbersFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 Perhaps he/she is more confident of seeing off Reform than the Greens. I can imagine swapping my vote to Green but never to Reform. They may be worried there are lots more like me.
Show threadBarney Dellar (he/him)Feb 28
@BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 Exactly this. Labour see the Greens as a threat to the Labour Party. Reform are merely a threat to ordinary people. Obviously protecting the Labour Party is the most importantly political goal.
Show threadInc Hulk 🧪Feb 28
@BarneyDellar @BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 That is exactly what I wanted to reply, but your words are better!
Show threadPeter BrownFeb 28
@BarneyDellar @BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 I think it was Gordon Brown who opined that power was far more important than policies or even principles.
Show threadBarney Dellar (he/him)Feb 28
@peterbrown @BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 I mean, in a sense, that’s true. For a political party, policies and principles are irrelevant if you don’t have the ability to implement them.
Show threadPeter BrownFeb 28
@BarneyDellar @BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 unfortunately it was in the context of laying aside of your policies and principles at the altar of power.
Otherwise known as selling your soul.
Show threadRaymondPierreL3Feb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
what is it with Labor (Australia) and Labour (UK) and their vitriolic hatred of the Greens? Instead of lashing out at a party which welcomes the disaffected labor lefties, why don’t they come off their neoliberalist centre-right position and get back to the roots of Labor/Labour — traitors to the workers’ cause this bunch of revisionists.
#Labor #Labour #UK #Australia
#Greens
Show threadEmeritus Prof Christopher MayFeb 28

@RaymondPierreL3

Its depressing isn't it, but as you imply, nothing new

Show threadRaymondPierreL3Feb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
Yes, very depressing.
Show threadPurpleShonaSFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 yep, you nailed it.
Show threadrustyFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 it’s similar in Australia. Labor sees the Greens as more of a threat, it seems, than the divisive and ill-named One Nation.
Show threadThe Penguin of EvilFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 the level of cope on display is positively Russian in class at this point with Starmer talking nonsense about Galloway rather than trying a little self reflection. Sooner he is out the better for labour, so hopefully he stays put 😁
Show threadCockneyLaurieFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6

I assume that they are thinking "worse" as it means Starmer and his minions are not able to use the news to spin pandering to the Far Right.

Show threadskuaFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6
Liking ministersin.
Tickles memories of the Faction Paradox Doctor Who.

ἀλήθεια
alḗtheia

#FactionParadox #DoctorWho

Show threadSteve WoodsFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6 Labour love smearing, even though their smears are completely ineffective (and frequently misdirected).

It must be a reflex action.

Show threadTristram BrelstaffFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
I gave up on Labour membership when Jeremy Corbyn failed to come to an agreement with the Greens and Liberals. He might have actually got into power had he done so.
I think that such an agreement will be even more necessary now that Labour are bringing 16 and 17 year olds into the electorate.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 For many on the left, squabbling amongst themselves is *much* more important than fighting the right. Always has been, always will be. So statements like that are hardly a surprise.
Show threadDavid SFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 worst for labour, not the constituency or country?
Show threadKevinOnEarthFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
What is very revealing is that Labour now see themselves as closer to Reform than to the #Greens.
The upside is that this should see SWATHS of disaffected once-traditional – but also young – Labour supporters going #Green.
Show threadZappesFeb 28

@Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 That seems to be what's happening in Germany right now. Our labour-equivalent party (the SPD) managed to piss off their traditional voters so effectively that the poll results of the Greens and SPD have basically been swapped.

At least the SPD never moved towards our reform-equivalent (the AfD). But our tories (CDU) made it very clear, repeatedly, that they consider the Greens their main enemy while inching closer to the fascists with every election.

Show threadZappesFeb 28
@Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 The worst thing about this development is that we now have two democratic parties (Green and CDU) that , in combination, represent most of the country - but one of them sees the other as the antichrist which makes a sensible democratic discourse extremely difficult. The only ones who really benefit from that are the nazis. :(
Show threadusmu 🍋🏳️‍🌈🤟Feb 28
@zappes @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 It's very similar here in the Netherlands, with the exception the Dutch labor party (PvdA) has now merged with the dutch Greens (Groen Links), after they got decimated in the last election. This is causing a lack of diversity on the left wing that worries me
Show threadZappesFeb 28

@usmu @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 And let me guess... Instead of uniting against the Wilders scumbag and his cronies, the new left party and the conservatives prefer to fight the respective other democratic party?

I hate this timeline we are living in.

Show threadusmu 🍋🏳️‍🌈🤟Feb 28
@zappes @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 It just happened, so the exact ramifications aren't clear. It looks like the new party (called Groen Links - PvdA for now) is fighting everybody right now. With the Greens being the dominant factor in the merger I am reasonably sure that will not change that much. I'm more worried the lack of a "true" labor option will turn people off from voting left wing. The last election results seem to point in that direction as they were not as good as hoped for.
Show threadThePurpleOctopus 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇪🇺🐧Mar 1
@zappes @Quantillion@mstdn.io @ChrisMayLA6 And to think they still also form governments together in some of the states... ironic. When they have another one of their histrionic antigreen rants they always seem to kind of overlook that little fact...
Show threadFelichsFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6

the people getting what they want IS the worst outcome.

For them.

Show threadCat, Fée Line (she/her)Feb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 they can't even discern the evil anymore 🙄🙁
Show threadxs4me2Feb 28

@ChrisMayLA6

Exactly...

Show threadSteve WoodsFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 Politician (n.); a person who approaches every matter with an open mouth.
Show threadHeatherMJFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
They are not going to learn the lesson that moving to the right does not give them support. Thay have the opportunity now to become the Labour Party the country needs. They need to change now before it is too late. They are not going to
Show threadAntJBroFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 well said.
Show threadgotofritzFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6

Clearly talking from Labour's POV - the Greens are eating their lunch, Reform are eating the Tories' (broad simplifcation).

The Greens may end up replacing Labour, or at least this is their fear

Show threadLazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Feb 28
@gotofritz @ChrisMayLA6 their fear, our hope.
Show threadohmrunFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
The categorical error they are making is in believing that they can rein in the right once they've dealt with the left.
Show threadEmeritus Prof Christopher MayFeb 28

@ohmrun

agreed; what is so stupid is the idea of 'dealing with the left' in the first place...

Show threadohmrunFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6
They're all managerial types, their remit is cracking the whip and keeping the circus on the road.
Lefties are disorderly and defiant, at least if you're doing it right.
Show threadIsabel RuffellFeb 28

@ChrisMayLA6

I have often thought that the visceral hatred of the Scottish Labour Party for the SNP intensified when the latter pivoted to asoft leftish position. It is more complicated than that on both sides, but it is a factor.

Obviously, as a Green, I'd say the SNP have been facing both ways for decades now and papering over deep divisions. But that is still too much for #labour who still see themselves as the rightful party of government here..

Show threadgbsillsFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 Well to be fair the dude is a Labour politician. A Green victory is the worst thing that can happen to Labour, even if it is the best thing that can happen for the company. Politicians think this way.
Show threadTony RowsellFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 👍
Show threadGraeme 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Feb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 They way Labour and the others are taking pops at the greens is good news - shows they are worried. Bring on proportional representation and a multi party system, with whipping outlawed. Oh, and make it a republic.
Show threadRichRARobiFeb 28

@pa27 @ChrisMayLA6

#starmer will be pooping his national front knickers.
FPTP normally works in favour of the larger parties
(I don't really understand why - possibly because smaller parties eat votes that the second in line needs)

With honest social media in the mix it might just be that we can turn the country round. I would really love to see honest politics.

Since I remember it has been bicker, bicker, tit-for-tat, backbiting, see-saw cross-party absolute SHIT.

#green for hope

Show threadEric GoodwinFeb 28
@ChrisMayLA6 @AndrewHenry centrists always say things like this. Here in Ontario, Canada when the Liberal party was about to loose the election instead of fighting the right wing Conservstives they attacked the (slightly) left party, NDP, that was leading in the polls. Three elections later the right is still in power and you basically can’t see a doctor anymore. Sigh.