Mastodawn

djuber Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite I don't think what I do is "bike packing" but touring, I use a rear rack with 20L panniers, plus a sleeping bag over the rack. Last year I added a handlebar bag to the mix, the tent setup goes there (everything except the sleeping bag), plus some 4L fork bags ( I don't have a front rack), with snacks and extra water.

Other folks go lighter, with the large saddle bag jutting out from the seat post. So I guess I'm a luxury tourer.

#BikeNite

@djuber @ascentale @bikenite Thanks, this is neat! #BikeNite

David S Dec 20

A5. I use a rack and panniers, stem bag, and a small tank bag and frame bag so I can still have a big water bottle. Also a trunk pack on the rack.

Stem bag is usually snacks like jelly babies and cakes.
Tank bag has gels and cereal bars.
Frame bag I put a couple of TPU tubes, battery and cables.
Trunk bag is useful for stuff like passport, camera, YETI flask for coffee and extra food.

I then fill one pannier with cycling clothes and the other with civvies.

@Pionir @ascentale @bikenite Ooh, thanks, this is great!! #Bikenite

David S Dec 20

It's easy to overpack, but I like to have plenty of clean cycling gear.

By the way, I use the panniers off road too. Bikepacking bags look cool, but panniers just work better.

Mark Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite A5

Not a lot of bike packing/touring, but from the little I’ve done…

Pay attention to weight distribution. Distribute well front to back. Don’t overload front or rear.

Do some test rides at speed (down steep hills). Watch for speed shimmy / death wobble, and know how you’ll react to it if it visits you. Loaded bikes might surprise you at speed even if you have sped down hills a thousand times before. #BikeNight

@MarkBrigham @ascentale @bikenite Oooh, thanks!!! Haven't done that. Death wobble sounds bad!! #BikeNite

Mark Dec 20

@ascentale @bikenite @ai6yr It is bad! I was a couple feet behind child number two when she and her rear-loaded bike got the death wobbles. Scared the pants off of both of us. I thought she would spill & I’d run over her, but fortunately she brought it under control.

@ai6yr @MarkBrigham @ascentale @bikenite
One of the weird things about death wobble is that you can fix it by either adding more or less weight to the front. There's just a sweet spot where it all goes wrong.

Brownian_motion Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite I have only bikepacked once as neither of my tents fit well on my bike, so I almost always use my trailer, sometimes with panniers for quick access. My trainer is single wheel so it’s really important for me to make sure I balance the load properly but having done so it’s really stable and I don’t have the issues with cross winds quite so much as bikepacking with frame and panniers. #bikenite #biketrailer

@Brownian_motion @ascentale @bikenite Thanks! How is that style of trailer going uphill? I have a cargo trailer, and I can't imagine going very far with it (heavy!!)

Brownian_motion Dec 20

@ai6yr @ascentale @bikenite I can certainly feel the drag compared to going without, but I have a really low range of gears so I just keep pedaling. I notice the drag more on the downhills, pretty much top out in the high 20’s mph. This trailer attaches at the rear axel with a center pin so it’s extremely easy to maneuver, but as expected it’s kinda fidgety to balance. #bikenite

Thalass Dec 20

@Brownian_motion

What make/model is that trailor? I've used a two wheel trailer in the past and it was always painful to maneuver in tight spaces. I kinda want to get one like that.

Moz Dec 20

@Brownian_motion @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite And then we have to ask about the difference between bikepacking and cycle touring.

Is a trailer really bikepacking gear?

(I' not judging, just asking, because the bikepackers I know regard my setup as impossibly slow and heavy)

#BikeNite

Sam H (he/him)Dec 21

@moz @Brownian_motion @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
I've just asked my partner her thoughts on this.
"Bike packing is when you want to be miserable camping. Touring is when you're comfortable."

Frank Bennett 🇯🇵Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite A5: I do a few one- and two-day camping/touring trips each year. My setup is to use front and rear panniers (the front rack is by Tubus), with a bespoke mount for a small quick-access bag in front with first aid stuff and snacks. There are photos of the rig in action on my blog at https://fgbjr.name
#bikeNite

Frank Bennett

Frank Bennett's personal site: biking, cookery, and stuff

@fgbjr @ascentale @bikenite Thanks!

adamrice Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite Bikepacking gear lists is a whole genre on YouTube.

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite #bikenite A5: I'm yet to do much travelling on the pushbike but I did a lot on motorcycles and my #1 bit of advice is ... well #1 is "if it can do 2 jobs its worth twice the weight" but #2 is to plan out what goes in which pannier and stick with it, that way you're not constantly rooting through your camp stuff looking for daytime stuff etc.

My "system" is to keep during-the-day stuff on one side and camping-the-night stuff on the other, with the mnemonic "do we have any snacks _left_? vs. is this the _right_ place to camp?"

Moz Dec 20

@nickzoic @bikenite 😁

Very much this. I normally have one for clothes, one for tent/sleeping gear, one for food and one for misc. I used to also have a camera bag, but that was just camera gear and there's a special bin on my touring bike just for that.

Watching people open all their panniers when a torrential downpour starts looking for their raincoat is funny to watch but often less of a learning experience than it should be.

#BikeNite

@moz @bikenite the logical extension from this is to also put the camp stuff in the bag in the order you'll get it out when setting up, so sleeping bag in the bottom, sleeping mat on top of that, tent at the top & if the tent is in different parts put the pegs on top of the inner on top of the poles on top of the fly. That way when you get there you just start from the top and work down until bedtime :-)

https://aus.social/@neoluddite/114764373463974455

neoluddite Dec 20

@nickzoic @moz @bikenite The other option is a big duffel bag strapped to the back, with some stabilisers on the rack to extend it sideways and backwards. Much easier to pack and unpack IME, you can easily lift it off (if you're travelling on a train or ferry) and you can pack different sizes of stuff, not just thin, small or squashable things .

This was version 1 - with a plank that extended the rack backwards about 20-30cm, and a cheap ALDI camping duffel. The next version will be plywood (lighter) and a bit wider to stop it tipping sideways, and I have a better (waterproof) 65L bag.

@neoluddite @moz @bikenite hey, yeah, "whatever works for you" is a totally valid thing here :-)

neoluddite Dec 20

@nickzoic @moz @bikenite Have you seen what panniers cost? It's outrageous! 😉

@neoluddite @nickzoic @moz @bikenite
The large duffle bag is hugely underrated if you can fit it on.
This is my Brompton, packed for 2 nights through a winter storm. Tent on the front, everything else in the back.
Didn't need any cooking gear though as staying very close to town.

@v_perjorative @neoluddite @moz @bikenite This is my one all set up for an overnighter ... which I didn't actually end up staying overnight for because the campground was quite busy ... but anyway, the setup feels pretty good with good balance and plenty of extra capacity for a bit more food. Water was the worst bit as it was a dry site but I just added a 2L soft drink bottle on top of that front bag.

neoluddite Dec 20

@nickzoic @v_perjorative @moz @bikenite I have those Azur panniers too - the plastic clips snapped and fell apart on the second ride, I ended up tying them together with paracord, but don't really trust them any more...

@neoluddite @v_perjorative @moz @bikenite weirdly they've survived okay the stitching is getting a big dodgy and I've super glued a few holes up. But I always put heavy stuff elsewhere and use the little cross-straps to take some of the weight

@nickzoic @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
Riffing on the doing 2 jobs well thing:
If you have panniers, you can also use them to do the shopping.

markn🚲Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite A5.

Few notes based on my experiences...

How many bags, where, depends on the type of trip: duration, climate, accommodation & eating plans, etc.

The other really big influence is: How long will I be on the bike every day? If it's all day, I need a lot less than museum visit touring (i might need to smell less too!).

Picture is my set up for this summer's month long trip from Nice (France) back to the UK over the Alps.

I tried to balance the weight front and back for off-road & keep it as light as I could. The route had *a lot* of climbing. As you can see I like some bag zoning!

Tent in front fork bag 1. Waterproofs in fork bag 2. Luxury sleeping roll on the rack. Food in the bar bag. Tools in the frame bag. Everything else in the small panniers.

This was heavy, but still just about viable for the hike-a-bike bits. A bit iffy on some of the more challenging descents, but it all felt very secure.

Asphalt and Earth Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite I have a mix of bags that I’ve bought when I’ve needed them. Too easy to buy all the bags and then you’ll just fill them. If you’re in the UK have a look in a Alpkit shop - you can play with example bags there and get a real feel for them.

Alpkit will also make custom made bag (The Stingray) for your bike frame at very reasonable prices. Picture (very poor quality) of my Stingray.

Link: https://alpkit.com/pages/sonder-bikes-and-wheels

#bikenite

Asphalt and Earth Dec 20

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite I’ve also got a number of Restrap bikes which are excellent quality.

#bikenite

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
A5.
This is what I used for touring around Orkney for two weeks. My partner had a similar setup, but she had the kitchen, while I had the tent.
We're best described as maximalist campers though, and we were only doing 30km or so per day. Main downside was getting the bikes on and off the small ferries.
The rubber duck was vital.

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
A5 cont.
The bags are all Carradice Super-C
Anything that didn't fit in them got strapped to the top, including a folding table, sleep mat, crocs, pee bottle, folding chair, pastries, etc.

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite apart from the frame bags. The main one is by Miss Grape, and holds everything for repairs, and the top one by RockBros I think, held snacks.

@ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
A photo showing both bikes with all the gear attached (shortly before we had to take it all off so we could get the bikes on the ferry). Beloved is slightly obscuring the stuff on her bike unfortunately.

@v_perjorative @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite Do the ferry companies really make you strip your bags off your bikes? Or was that only some particularly small ferries? #BikeNite

@meganL @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite
They're foot passenger ferries. Big enough to get plenty of bikes on but you have to manhandle them up and down the steps, and you don't want to risk it all going in the sea if you fuck up.
Unless it's a multi island ferry that uses a hoist (see attached picture) on the islands that can't handle RORO.

@v_perjorative @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite So it seems more like an accessibility problem (i.e....even though wheelchair users are foot passengers, they'd also be subjected to problems getting on board). #BikeNite

@meganL @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite yup. The infrastructure just can't handle it. The ferries will move heaven and earth to get you on and off, but dignity may have to go out the window.

@v_perjorative @ascentale @bikenite Cool!!!

Most important bag - a top tube bag filled with home made flapjack

Seriously now

Try borrowing kit first. It can really add up and I know people (real cyclists) who just don't get on with bike packing/touring .

1. Everything is heavier when on bike than you think it will be - even if you actually weighed it first.

2. Water can get everywhere - food bags and dry bags essential

3. Fully pack bike and do practise runs first - will handle very differently.

4. Obsessive attention to detail does help - plan meticulously

@MatthewNewell @ascentale @bikenite Thanks!

Jules she/her Dec 20

@MatthewNewell @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite I mean I can tell you how not to pack 😂 https://tangledbankforaging.co.uk/2024/10/22/a-beginners-bikepacking-adventure/ We have since invested in a lighter tent and mattress

A beginners’ bikepacking adventure

I’ve been a regular cycle commuter in both London and Exeter so am pretty confident on a bike. I’ve also done a fair bit of long distance hiking, so have a fair bit of experience with p…

Tangled Bank Foraging and Fibre Crafts

Stoneface Vimes Dec 20

@MatthewNewell @ascentale @ai6yr @bikenite hear hear.

@MatthewNewell @ascentale @bikenite Flapjack?

Nine Oh Real Dec 20

@ai6yr @MatthewNewell @ascentale @bikenite
To me this looks like a cereal bar or oat bar. (Aka flapjack in the UK.)

@ai6yr @ascentale @bikenite

flapjack = A bar made with oats butter and sugar. It's basically like less toasty granola in a square or bar. Melted butter, add in sugar till that has dissolved into melted butter, stir in oats. Bake a little bit if you like crunchy. Add nuts and dried fruit etc to taste

But don't take my word for it - Fliss Cloake is a cycling super chef

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/mar/10/how-to-cook-perfect-flapjacks

How to cook perfect flapjacks

Despite a wholesome reputation the flapjack is a hymn to butter and sugar. But should they be crunchy or chewy?

The Guardian

@MatthewNewell @bikenite I wonder how old this usage of 'flapjack' is? In the US, it tends to be another word for 'pancake'. But it could very well have been bastardized by USians... #BikeNite #Food #Language

pirategoddess 🏳️‍🌈Dec 20

@meganL @MatthewNewell @bikenite Yeah, before reading this I had only ever heard of "flapjack" as referring to pancakes lol

@meganL @bikenite

flap'jack noun

A kind of broad, flat pancake (Shakespeare and US)

A biscuit or cake made with rolled oats and syrup

A flat face powder compact

An apple-puff (dialect)

Even in Chambers - UK dictionary recommended for most crossword fanatics (like me) the first definitely is USAian and old.

Lots of these words have been preserved in NA-English but changed in English-English (apparently exactly same thing in SA-Spanish Vs Castillion)

@MatthewNewell @bikenite Interesting.

Anyway, what you made looks very yummy and seems a smart journey-cake. #BikeNite

@meganL @bikenite

Will try to remember to check in my paper copy of the OED (full microprint version) which lives at my office. It has first usage for each definition. But famously the English didn't eat oats much in previous centuries (see Sam Johnson's famous quote re Oats Scots and Horses ) so I reckon Chambers and The Americans are right

@MatthewNewell @bikenite Yeah, I love the Samuel Johnson definition of oats. Not for its shitting on the Scots, but for its oblique humor.

Matthew Newell Dec 22

@meganL @bikenite

US usage is definitely the original (1600)- the common UK usage is very modern in comparison (1935)

The dates are the first usage found by OUP in printed matter they seem representative .

I love the second source of modern usage "The Radiation Cookbook". Will have to dig further for that

Megan Lynch (she/her)Dec 22

@MatthewNewell I love OED for this reason. Never had the dosh to buy even the abbreviated version, but my English teacher in HS had one.

Yeah, 1942 "Radiation Cookery Book" does seem well in the era of radium watch dials and personal radiation belts meant to "cure" one's sexual difficulties...

Matthew Newell Dec 22

@meganL this was a book club introductory offer but I knew of three books I already wanted from them and was willing to pay their full price for so snapped up the bargain .

It's the Compact Full OED - 9 pages microprinted on each of 2386 physical pages

plactagonic Dec 20

A5: I have ridden with this ~10 000km this year. Every bikepacker told me that it is too heavy settup for bikepacking and every biketourer said that it is too light for biketouring. So I don't know what it is.

As for where everything is:
- front bags are for sleeping
-rear bags everything else - kitchen, spare clothes, food
- tent on the rack
- U-lock on the rear triangle, water in bottle cages
- small handlebar bag and saddle bag is for snacks, small items and spare parts, tools

I will probably change lot of things mainly swap big panniers for small ones (~10l), put full frame bag for food and water in camelbag and lot of small quality of life improvements like click on front bags and racks.

This settup weights around 30kg fully loaded (food and water included). More important is the load distribution, you want everything low and ideally in the middle for more stability and handling. So that's why I will go for the frame bag.

I chatted with more people in Switzerland about their experiences and everyone pretty much told me that the extreme lightweight bikepacking is bit dumb. Lightweight gear isn't that durable, you always fiddle with things trying to put them in bags and other small annoyances with this stuff isn't worth it.

#bikeTooter #bikenite