@mrmasterkeyboard sounds like some folks who don't want to admit #Xorg is dead and #Wayland is the way to move forward.

• Kinda like folks stubbornly opposing #SystemD for no good reason.

#sarcasm #Linux #Xlibre

@kkarhan Basically, it’s just:

“Fuck you, let’s keep something completely outdated alive.”

On my main machine I use X11 as screensharing works but on Wayland it doesn’t. (It’s Gentoo, probably my fault why it doesn’t work.) I use Wayland elsewhere and it’s fine.

A lot of people I follow support XLibre which is concerning because of these:

“Together we'll make X great again!”, it’s anti-DEI stance and their whole thing against big tech… hosted on GitHub, owned by M$. 🤦

1/3

@kkarhan and I assume the creator of XLibre is making up a conspiracy just to gain attention to the project claiming it’s not that people are adopting Wayland because it’s better but instead it’s because “big tech moles” are trying to defund and extinguish activity on XOrg.

Seriously, this is stupid. The creator had to have done something to violate the rules of the FreeDesktop Git to get purged, not just because he started XLibre and he’s covered it up.

2/3

@kkarhan The creator of XLibre is not a great person and had bad faith intentions in the past, in one instance spreading anti-vax information (or at least vax misinformation) to the LKML in 2021 which got a response from Linus.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

If anything, this is the last person ANYONE should trust to be in control of an XOrg revival let alone a person to be trusted. Wayland is the way forward and people need to stop supporting XLibre because XOrg is dead anyways.

3/3

@cesarpose @kkarhan Enrico is a huge moron, even bigger than Wheatley from Portal 2 and yet he almost destroyed an entire facility. I looked into why Enrico got banned.

Politicisation and criticism of XOrg from XLibre along with his garbage tier MR’s to XOrg caused it.

@mrmasterkeyboard @cesarpose Granted, the valid criticism ('There needs to be X11 releases cuz people tend to use git snapshots of the master branch out of desperation') gets completely drowned by him refusing to make an unstable / devtest branch and being an asshole to the same folks that hosted his fork for a short time and ranting nonsensical shite (about 'DEI is discrimination!')…

• metux is primed to go full RMS and basically destroy any positive legacy of himself by virtue of giving everyone a finger, smoking tinfoil and then complain why noone's loving him!

https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/114728168610571960

@mrmasterkeyboard @cesarpose I mean, #Xorg - like #SysVinit - both have severe issues that just ain't gonna be addressable under reasonable expectations re: hardware support, compatibility and software support.

• But there's a reason "Big Distros" and the community in general came to the conclusion that #Wayland and #SystemD are at worst 'necessary evils' and for the most part deliver a lot of quality-of-life features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

There is no "#conspiracy" of #BigTech wanting to kill #X11 or even sabotage #Xlibre for that matter. It's just that some folks have trouble letting go and acknowledge that #Xserver is kept on "life support" as #Xwayland so people can run their 25+ year old #Windows games in #Wine without going apeshit.

• I mean, ask @fuchsiii about that effort, where she's basically "workarounding" wine devs by literally pulling a "#Steam compatibility layer" kind of trick and swapping "good known working" Wine versions in just before launching a game because that works for setups where you have one user playing one game at a time on one machine and where shuffling around files/symlinks is possible.

@mrmasterkeyboard @cesarpose case in point:

Just because "My Little Distro" (#OS1337) runs of a single /etc/init file doesn't mean this is the "correct" or "authoritative" way to do it nor that this is scalabe at all.

• Just 'let me cook' on @OS1337 because it's more of a 'learning exercise' rather than "production grade"...

Back to #Xorg: I do think that metux's actions really salted the fields re: #Xlibre and any #X11 releases!

• Granted non-#Linux OSes like #OpenBSD already forked off or DIY'd and now moving towards #Wayland because it is the way forward just by virtue that there's hardware in stores right now that doesn't support #Xserver but Wayland...

@kkarhan @cesarpose @OS1337 I remember seeing your OS/1337 project a while back and I thought it was pretty cool if I’m honest.

Personally, I do think XOrg is dying and metux is doing NOTHING to help save it if that’s his goal.

@mrmasterkeyboard granted, given your developments I'd feel flattered of you being interest in @OS1337, given that it's "beningh" in comparison to what you did...

I don't expect people who built themselves a GUI desktop to get excited about a distro that goes like: "80x25 MDA is our resolution, 25th line is used as a status bar"...

@mrmasterkeyboard np.

To me @OS1337 is just an attempt to a minimalist #Linux distro because I want some #reproduceable & #auditable #firmware for various other projects, and both @yoctoproject and #RaspberryPiOS 'lite' seem rather excessive to me.

• Also a proper minimalist #CLI-based #distro that can be used for an "#SSH-#Terninal" does have merits.

I just think that it can have serious benefits being less distracting and allowing me (and others) to just use basically any hardware to get work done...

• The rest of the component selection came because it was either dictated by necessity (Linux has the most driver support and biggest community), alignment with values & goals ( @landley 's #toybox is a clean & minimalist userland) and being better than #GNU stuff (i.e. @musl / #musl) by not bricking shit at random minor updates…

@kkarhan @OS1337 @yoctoproject @musl I actually might try and build OS/1337 today.

I'd love to see it on the RPi4 one day, then I could replace Ubuntu Server maybe and run my Docker Gitea over Tailscale on it.

(I just had a really silly idea, but what if I put the OS/1337 userspace on the ToaruOS 2.x Misaka kernel? Probably impossible but fun to think about!)

@mrmasterkeyboard I.mean there isn't much of a userspace on it's own.

• Basically @OS1337 is @landley 's #mkroot but for bare metal as of now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Q14ATvupo

@mrmasterkeyboard If that #kernel is mostly #POSIX-compatible it should be possible to port #toybox over there (alongside any other software one may want to get running on @OS1337), but that's as far as I know.

Not shure if @landley has the time and spoons beyond testing toybox against #Linux as he does aim to make it a better alternative to #BusyBox & #GNUtils.

@kkarhan @OS1337 @landley

To quote Kevin Lange, creator of ToaruOS:

"Is ToaruOS POSIX-compliant?
While I aim to support POSIX interfaces well enough for software to be ported, strict implementation of the standard is not a major goal of the OS, and full compliance may even be undesirable."

So, I think it could be possible!

@landley @kkarhan @OS1337 the Misaka kernel is the kernel behind versions 1.99.x-2.x of ToaruOS. I've always wanted to see Linux utils ported to ToaruOS.

I know a bit about syscalls on ToaruOS, in fact I'm even making Rust apps work on ToaruOS. I made my own syscall for ToaruOS too.

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley glad I could get you guys connected then...

I'm convinced #toybox is a good #userland to get a basic OS up and running and on it's feet. If it's good enough for #Android then it's certainly gonna be good enough for #embedded stuff as well...

• After all that seems to be the main goal of it: Allowing "self-hosting" as in building itself under itself if not deliver under the same OS...

I don't leverage that capability with #OS1337 (at least for now) but that's because I treat it more akin to how #VxWorks and #WindRiverLinux is being developed and deployed...

@kkarhan @landley I think every console since PS3 for Sony use BSD OSes so I think toybox would maybe be used on one of them.

The Switch and Switch 2 use their own OS iirc.

@mrmasterkeyboard @kkarhan Toybox builds on freebsd and macos (without homebrew, even), but not all the commands unless you use their Linux emulation layer.

BSD doesn't have the same /proc, and their way of implementing ps and top is a giant black box glue library collating a half dozen insufficiently documented kernel APIs.

There's a reason I don't take posix more seriously. It's a swiss cheese standard that hasn't even got "mount" or "init".

@landley @mrmasterkeyboard yeah.

Personally, if "producing paper" wasn't undesireable you'd propably consider just taking the subsets of #POSIX and #LSB you're implementing and standardizing that as a sorf-of "#TINYNIX" (MININIX may be confused with Minix, MICRONIX and NANONIX already exist) standard.

• Simply because you've propably taken a look at every userland-tool you want to include or have included in #toybox and asked if it's necessary to make a self-hosting OS.

I just tend to ask what are the comfort features and tools that I use and want if I have to use "my little distro" for my daily job as linux sysadmin.

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley My choice of @musl for @OS1337 is because I want my stuff to be statically linked and not every minor update to have the risk to brick shit, because #GlibC is notorious for that since the #GNU project are nonchalantly thinking "just recompile it" is a valid excuse.

• Espechally since (for better or worse) not everything is (A)GPL(v3)-licensed and prople may need to deal with #binaries and/or #CCSS because in many cases patents and licensing are not allowing the distribution of it.

I mean, we all 'loved' to live in a world where this wasn't the case but if I were to like deal with a vocoder for MELP, AMBE or TWELP I'm pretty shure I'd never ever be allowed to distribute it's source code, even for "clients exempted from the need to obtain licensing"...

@mrmasterkeyboard @landley exactly that is literally the Problem with #native #Linux games:

• A lot of them won't run on modern distros because of #GlibC!

@kkarhan @landley musl NEEDS to become the default on Linux. GlibC is horrible to work with sometimes. My distro that I was making was using musl actually.

I had a bunch of things work, but the Kuroko concept was having issues so it's currently on halt. The distro was called Lunaris.