Mastodawn

I grew up steeped in the "I would die for my country" or "I would die for my children" or "He died for our sins" where death was the ultimate showing of love...

...I have to sit with that.

But what I want to know is... Would you live for your country? Would you build for your children (and their children)? Would you help out your neighbor even if they don't follow your god?

Would you fix. Would you love. Would you grow, heal, and cherish for those around you?

Death is easy. Life is hard.

The greatest showing of love is to live and to help others live and to increase that quality of life.

JohnsNotHere Apr 28, 2025

@tinker Well said my friend.

Maggie Maybe Apr 28, 2025

@tinker have you read this thread by “Design mom”? It’s fantastic (don’t let the Bible reference turn you away, she makes excellent points.)

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1225052129238421505.html

#DesignMom #protectors

Thread by @designmom on Thread Reader App

@designmom: When I hear men worshipping guns and talking about how there’s nothing that will stop them from defending their family, my mind goes to Naaman in the Bible. Do you remember Naaman? He was a great...…

Tinker ☀️Apr 28, 2025

@maggiejk - Thank you, I'll check it out!

Saupreiss #Präparat500 🗽Apr 28, 2025

I certainly would not “for my country”. Neither live nor die.

Agreeing with the rest.

Tinker ☀️Apr 28, 2025

@Saupreiss - Yeah, I grew up with fierce nationalism and jingoism. Fierce. It's still around me even now, even as I've been able to get out from under those groups.

Just proper steeped in it here.

So that "would you...for your country" is directed towards that type of person and mindset.

Nationalism is rot.

jack Apr 28, 2025

@tinker "I would kill and/or die for my family" yeah but will you do the dishes for them

Tinker ☀️Apr 28, 2025

@jackeric - right?

rk: it’s hyphen-minus actually Apr 28, 2025

@tinker @jackeric

“An American will cross an ocean to fight a war but won’t cross the street to vote.”

Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon Apr 28, 2025

@jackeric @tinker

I have 1 family member left and I would happily kill him, does that count?

Maggie Maybe Apr 28, 2025

@jackeric @tinker that’s the whole point of Design Mom’s thread I dropped further up.

Men talking about how they would do anything to protect their family if it means they get to do violence, but not if it means they have to teach their children to wash their hands to protect them from germs, or if it means they have to prepare good dinner every night to protect them from malnutrition.

mk30 May 1, 2025

@jackeric exactly

@tinker Amen 🫙🌳🛠️

Urzl Apr 28, 2025

@tinker
I really love this song because it's right on target for this kind of thought process.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ls-tOa_f7KE&feature=shared

Dirty

YouTube

Vivian, Venus Pirate 🏳️‍⚧️🧋Apr 28, 2025

@tinker THIS! Living as an example, being who you are, and building something with others, is so much more meaningful than dying performatively for them. And so much more meaningful than TALKING about dying performatively.

John H "looking for work"

@tinker
Well said. Thanks for that.

@tinker @darfplatypus “Dying is easy, young man
Living is harder”

Jonathan Hartley Apr 28, 2025

@tinker It maybe isn't the optimal tactic but I have enjoyed causing a kerfuffle by responding to the silence of assumed consent after heartfelt expressions of willingness to die for one's country by chattily exclaiming "Oh wow no I would NOT do that, that seems like a terrible deal!" It stretches the Overton window and allows the beginnings of thought about why one might want - or not want - to do that.

Large Heydon Collider Apr 28, 2025

@tinker "I will/would die" is just a claim of masculinity, not an expression of love or even care.

s427 Apr 29, 2025

@heydon @tinker made me think of

kenan Apr 29, 2025

@s427 @heydon @tinker Amazing🤣

Anu Lahtinen Apr 28, 2025

@tinker This is precisely the protest that I read in Louisa M Alcott's (of all authors) books when growing up a couple of light years ago. In several occasions in her books, someone stated lightly "I'm glad to die for..." and the protagonists retorted: "It is much more difficult and therefore more honourable to LIVE for the cause". So I fully agree!

TheDude Apr 28, 2025

@tinker wow did I need this today, thank you!

THANK YOU for this.

Cy Apr 28, 2025

I would, but I didn't get to have any children, or a country really. My neighbors never go outside. So whatever. Fuck y'all.

Mx. Luna Corbden 🐸Apr 28, 2025

@tinker @Vincarsi I read a history book once, I think it was How The Irish Saved Civilization, that talked about how religious hermits created a new concept of martyrdom: the green martyr, one who "gave their life" to Christ not by dying, but by living.

And that trend led to universities, as such hermits began congregating and collecting books.

I think that's the concept here. Only with less retreating from society.

(Though I wouldn't mind congregating with other hermits and collecting books....)

Analyst Hyacinth, in the moss Apr 28, 2025

Stephanie Appleby Apr 28, 2025

@tinker Yes I would!

Hal Pomeranz Apr 28, 2025

@tinker @dbdean I was reminded of a scene from a movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LWJdzXDSmQ

The Outlaw Josey Wales | I Came Here to Die | World of Warner Bros.

YouTube

iveyline Apr 29, 2025

@tinker Well said.

mk30 May 1, 2025

@tinker excellent perspective. I read something once about how part of the myth of masculinity is that you'd be willing to pay "the ultimate price" in a dramatic situation, like a hero in a movie who starts out as an Everyman and has to risk his life to kill the alien or whatever. And while men who buy into this idea of masculinity might grapple with and accept the gravity of thisresponsibility (to possibly take life or sacrifice their own life as an act of protection), they may not be willing to do the everyday things that make life possible: taking care of kids and home, etc. for most people, that heroic moment of sacrifice never comes, and meanwhile they're leaving the dishes and cooking to someone else.

derek Aug 11, 2025

@tinker Would I live for my world and my children? Absolutely. I love my children unconditionally and I wish we had left them a better world than we have. I would do anything I could to make it a better world for them.

Would I live for my country? Fuck no. It has proven itself unworthy of my conviction. If I could continue my efforts at saving the world in a different country, I would in a moment. This country is too far down the pipe to make a difference at this point, and frankly, I am done with it.

Unfortunately, living for the world and your children but not your country isn't conducive to reality in this day and age.

Tinker ☀️Aug 11, 2025

@derek - Completely feel this. I've taken to "living for my neighborhood" as its what I can work directly on.

Draken BlackKnight Aug 11, 2025

@tinker
While I was in the Navy, I always truthfully parodied JFK's famous saying by saying "Ask not what your country can do for you but what your country can do to you."

The B side of that is "how do we fix what's wrong?"

Spitefully Optimistic Aug 11, 2025

@tinker they had to hype dying because the people that sent you to die, didn't want to themselves. Dying for the rich people that have stolen this country doesn't sound so great...

So yes, I love living for my children, being there for them is the highest calling, seeing them grow into young adults is a wonder.

@tinker
Hear hear

jmjm Aug 11, 2025

Comedian Ronnie Chieng on other things people could do, rather than die for their country.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tTL5FFaJa3Q

Ronny Chieng | More Efficient Way To Show Your Patriotism

YouTube