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@hzulla @hzulla - Yeah, I think you're right. I followed up the post with this one: https://infosec.exchange/@tinker/116496096417501652
I have observed different groups that line up with this pattern and its *often* (but not perfectly) along neurodivergence.... But!
You're right. One guy I know who is nuerodivergent and he is massively into vibe coding.... such as it is.
So I don't know the right words to describe it yet or the exact phenomena or reason for it. I just see a distinct pattern and have found others that observe it too.
The discussion following this post has been good to further flesh it out. I appreciate your response and input!
After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify. I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas. I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc). And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa. I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other. As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other. Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect... ...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me. Natural to whom?
@tinker I'm conflicted about your description there. As an #actuallyautistic person, I totally agree with you and I have the very same feelings about AI and "natural language" models.
However, with lots of #actuallyautistic social contacts and also having been in various self-help groups, I have met a number of violently pro-AI folks who are on the spectrum and don't share my (or your) disagreement about the use of AI as a replacement for actual precise communication with the machine.
So it doesn't seem that being autistic is a key factor in how much you like or dislike the "natural" language that LLMs force on us.
RE: https://infosec.exchange/@tinker/116494136372314588
Oh wow - I need to read this about 8 times, and then think hard about who seems to like using AI and who doesn’t.
This could be a thing.
After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify.
I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas.
I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc).
And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa.
I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other.
As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other.
Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect...
...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me.
Natural to whom?
After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify.
I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas.
I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc).
And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa.
I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other.
As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other.
Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect...
...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me.
Natural to whom?
@tinker modern search is perfectly efficient—it's just been tuned to maximize sponsored links, ads, and AI summaries, rather than accurate results.
They know people will keep searching for the info they need, and much like widening toothpaste tube spouts, it boosts profits at direct cost to the user, without providing them any better service.
We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
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