your auntifa liza šŸ‡µšŸ‡· šŸ¦› šŸ¦¦

it's time to fork #Firefox and turn it into a cooperative-owned project.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/mozilla-lays-off-60-people-wants-to-build-ai-into-firefox/

cooperative membership is the element missing from FLOSS.

fuck the non-profit's faux neutrality when in truth it's just a broke doppelganger of the top-down structure of the corporatist kleptocracy.

make the project a cooperative where members --users and developers-- get to vote on the future of the project with their paid memberships and contributed labor.

Mozilla lays off 60 people, wants to build AI into Firefox

Memo details layoffs, ā€œstrategic corrections,ā€ and a desire for ā€œtrustworthyā€ AI.

Ars Technica
Feb 14, 2024 at 10:34pmWeb
Show threadDavid ForsythFeb 14, 2024

@blogdiva

* Cries in #Palemoon *

Show threadFunesFeb 14, 2024
@blogdiva are there any examples of software owned/maintained by a cooperative? Would love to look into some as case studies.
Show threadmLFeb 14, 2024
@funes @blogdiva Debian.
Show threadFunesFeb 14, 2024
@ltlnx @blogdiva nice, the Debian constitution for anyone else interested: https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution
Debian Constitution

Show threadZack WeinbergFeb 15, 2024
@funes @ltlnx @blogdiva I would not recommend using Debian as a model; their decision making processes historically have led to endless flamewars and the rule of the loudest. (Their *development* process has historically worked very well at shielding users from the screaming on the mailing lists ā€” until fairly recently I would have recommended Debian over all other Linux distros, for any use ā€” but this is no longer true, and I think it mainly worked as long as it did because most of the time, most individual DDs could ignore each other and the screaming. That's not gonna work for a monolith like a web browser.)
Show threadnaught101Feb 15, 2024

@zwol @funes @ltlnx @blogdiva

Been thinking about switching to Debian recently (from kubuntu). What would you recommend these days?

Show threadThe DoctorFeb 17, 2024
@zwol @funes @ltlnx @blogdiva Can confirm about Debian development, unfortunately.
Show threadtrystimuliFeb 15, 2024

@funes @blogdiva thereā€™s loomio - source code on github. most tech worker cooperatives seem to do consulting.

another model might be a multi-stakeholder cooperative, which would also include people who use the software as owners/members, but i donā€™t have any ready examples of that model.

Loomio - make decisions together

Loomio is a collaborative decision-making app that saves time in meetings and keeps a record of decisions

Show threadFunesFeb 15, 2024

@tryst @blogdiva interesting, a cooperative developing software to facilitate cooperatives!

Multi-stakeholder could be an interesting avenue. I'd also be interested in the idea of a consumer cooperative, where people who have a common need for a piece of software buy membership to the cooperative instead of buying the software, which in turn funds it, and members vote on its direction.

Show threadtrystimuliFeb 15, 2024

@funes @blogdiva in the food coop space iā€™ve seen consumer coops that donā€™t treat their workers terribly well. it can end up being a little like an enterprise software team - the customer(s) donā€™t really have a reason to consider workerā€™s beyond what it gets them :ā€™(

this comes up a little in buying coops without paid workers too, when some people participate in the work and meetings and others just turn in their order sheets. but is exacerbated in a customer/customer-elected-board/board-hired-management/management-hired-workers cooperative.

thatā€™s not to say that it couldnā€™t work! and there are great consumer coops out there! just something to be careful of.

Show threadcohomology is FUN!Feb 15, 2024

@funes @blogdiva Forgejo, by @Codeberg

https://forgejo.org/

Forgejo ā€“ Beyond coding. We forge.

Forgejo is a self-hosted lightweight software forge. Easy to install and low maintenance, it just does the job.

Show threadMaxi 12x šŸ’‰Feb 14, 2024
@s_hentzschel ^^
Show threadatyhFeb 14, 2024
@claudiom @blogdiva
we are going to need projects like this in the days ahead if we want to be able to opt out of the #enshitification
Show threadBoudFeb 14, 2024

@blogdiva
Realism or a pipedream?

"The turnover of the largest three hundred cooperatives in the world reached $2.2 trillion." [1]

"Cooperative businesses are typically more productive and economically resilient than many other forms of enterprise, with twice the number of co-operatives (80%) surviving their first five years compared with other business ownership models (44%) according to data from UK." [1]

"Mondragon ... has [been running] since 1956." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

Cooperative - Wikipedia

Show threadChookMother šŸ‡¦šŸ‡ŗšŸ¦˜Feb 14, 2024
@blogdiva Very disappointed to read about what they're doing. Been a loyal user for many years. Now what?
Show threadAnthonyJK-AdminFeb 14, 2024

@blogdiva

Gotta remember:

FOSS capitalism is still capitalism.

Just because it's "free" doesn't mean there's not a cost.

And, ultimately, just like the #Pornocalypse, the Rapture of Enshittification comes for everyone.

#WarKeyCracks

Show threadjloFeb 14, 2024

@blogdiva Librewolf is an option. Arkenfox. Mullvad Browser (Tor without Tor).

Some options luckily.

Show threadCassandrichFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Obvious name: Fenix. Both a throwback to the original name, and pun on Fennec.
Show threadCassandrichFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Could even make that Fennix or Fennex if it's more unique.
Show threadM.S. Bellows, Jr.Feb 15, 2024
@dalias @blogdiva Fenix was a great Twitter app. Better consult @mttvll before snaking the name.
Show threadFoolishOwlFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva One of the big problems with Mozilla is that almost all its funding comes from Google. The speculation was that Google pays for Firefox so they can deny that they have a monopoly with Chrome. There's no way that's not going to collapse anyway. Mozilla is obviously doomed.
Show threadJenniferFeb 15, 2024
@foolishowl @blogdiva seriously?? Ug!
Show threadThe DoctorFeb 15, 2024
@foolishowl @blogdiva The best way to beat the opposition is to create it yourself.
Show threadThe DoctorFeb 15, 2024

@foolishowl @blogdiva Not actually created; Mozilla predates Google considerably.

But it is highly unlikely the Firefox effort would have gotten anywhere without Google paying for it. The Mozilla Foundation certainly so.

Show threadFoolishOwlFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-05-05/why-google-keeps-paying-mozilla-s-firefox-even-as-chrome-dominates
Why Google Keeps Paying Mozilla's Firefox Even as Chrome Dominates

No, really, why?

Bloomberg
Show threadVeebsFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva pls yes
Show threadCanadian Glen Feb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Waterfox. been around for years.
Show threadSibshopsFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva As long as it's open source AI, I'm okay with it.
Show threadJessie Nabein Feb 15, 2024

@blogdiva Would IceCat be viable at all as some kind of base? It's basically Firefox ESR just with Mozilla and FireFox branding removed/changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat

https://jessie.nabein.me/blog/consider-using-gnu-icecat-instead-of-firefox.html

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/icecat

GNU IceCat - Wikipedia

Show threadyour auntifa liza šŸ‡µšŸ‡· šŸ¦› šŸ¦¦Feb 15, 2024
@jessienab Librewolf would be the de facto model to follow. it's degoogled AND stripped most of Mozilla's commercialized garbage.
Show threadHoward Chu @ SymasFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva contribute to Seamonkey. https://www.seamonkey-project.org/
The SeaMonkeyĀ® Project

Show threadSmashedRatOnPressFeb 15, 2024
@hyc @blogdiva I loved Seamonkey for decades, until it fell so far behind that many very common sites wouldn't work with it any more. I abandoned it. I'd love to see it back up and running well again.
Show threadHoward Chu @ SymasFeb 15, 2024
@smashedratonpress @blogdiva I still use it as my main desktop browser. It lags a bit on supporting sites like github but that usually catches up again. And integrated email and calendar are still killer features.
Show threadyour auntifa liza šŸ‡µšŸ‡· šŸ¦› šŸ¦¦Feb 15, 2024
@hyc @smashedratonpress dude. that's hardcore.
Show threadJuho MƤntysaloFeb 15, 2024

@blogdiva

I'm a bit surprised how many times that article calls Mozilla "company" and compares it to Google and Apple.

True, the subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation that develops Firefox is a corporation, but the word "company" (and I just checked few dictionaries) refers to organisations that try to create money, not just stay afloat.

The-end-result is that the writer misses the Foundation's goal for healthy internet as a creator of useful tools, and instead assigns more capitalist motives.

Show threadDeusFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva "Mozilla is just a Foundation and operates like an NGO funded by Google", they said. They tried convincing me I could trust an NGO that's backed up by Google.
Show threadMichael VilainFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva I've already dumped Firefox for Floorp.
Show threadBandersnatchFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Just use #librewolf.
Show threadTyler K. NothingFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Halle-fucking-lujah, peep!
Show threadziriFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva noooooooo not my man firefox šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­
Show threadanoraxFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva
Librewolf on desktop and Mull on Android.
Show threadWayneFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Had anyone tried the duckduckgo browser now that is no longer under Microsoft's finger? I know they don't have extensions yet. But at least it's something you can have across your devices.
Show threadAlecaFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva the layoffs affected VPN, Relay, Monitor, and Social. Nothing happened to Firefox, on the contrary there are new open roles for desktop developers in the Firefox team that were just created.
The layoffs are terrible and the strategy focusing on AI is indeed questionable, but Firefox is owned by the Mozilla Foundation which is a non profit and community oriented organization
Show threadXerĆøFeb 15, 2024
@alecaddd did you read any of what she posted?
Show threadAlecaFeb 15, 2024
@ecksearoh @alecaddd yeah, didnā€™t mean to dismiss her points, sorry if I sounded condescending, I was trying to highlight the fact that Firefox wasnā€™t affected by the layoffs and the non profit on top of it itā€™s actually hiring, so my point is to try to not be too reactionary by suggesting forking Firefox and establishing a new entity since the current one is a bit outside of all current events
Show threadXerĆøFeb 15, 2024
@alecaddd I see, thank you for clarifying.
Show threadLinux and praxis: part of the resistance šŸ‡µšŸ‡ø ā˜®ļøFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva LibreWolf which already exists?
Show threadDaniel BrotherstonFeb 15, 2024

@blogdiva I agree that Firefox/Mozilla has issues, but I'm curious who you feel should be the "membership"?

Users? I don't think that would work well, I'm a pretty typical Firefox user and I just want a browser, not a civic commitment. I don't think a co-operative works very well when the vast majority of the membership is unengaged.

Code contributors? That could work, contributors definitely have more skin in the game, but are there examples of this working at a large scale? How does one deal with the transience of some contributors?

Employees of Mozilla? Definitely a good plan I think, but I'm unsure how this relates to FLOSS? A worker-owned co-operative tech company could easily work on closed source software. Still, I think as a strategy, this would have the most value. I want more worker owned co-ops in general.

Show threadkrimssFeb 15, 2024
@blogdiva Librewolf and Tor browser?
Show threadtrdebunkedFeb 15, 2024

@blogdiva good idea

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/407267.The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Funded

The Revolution Will Not Be Funded: Beyond the Non-Profiā€¦

A $1.3 trillion industry, the US nonprofit sector is thā€¦

Goodreads
Show threadunixninja92Feb 15, 2024
@blogdiva I think people vastly underestimate the amount of capital needed to fund development and maintenance of a modern browser engine. There's a good reason there's only really 3 browser engines today, blink(google), webkit (safari), and gecko(Firefox). Microsoft switched edge to be chromium based because it was so much cheaper and this is Microsoft we're talking about. Without Google's funding I'm not sure how well Firefox could be maintained.
Show threadFabio G.Feb 15, 2024

@unixninja92

Sounds like the complexity of the web should be scaled back until building a browser is no harder than building, say, a videogame

@blogdiva

Show threadMorgana MagpieFeb 17, 2024
@blogdiva the steady erosion of Firefox has been really sad and frustrating. I have almost as hard a time convincing anyone to use it instead of Edge, Safari, or Chrome, as I do converting people to Linux 
Show threadSalamandarFeb 17, 2024
@blogdiva Unfortunately that can only come from core maintainers of Firefox or else no one will follow.
Show threadFunkatron (Ed Finkler)Feb 19, 2024
@blogdiva @antijingoist I used to really want to work there.
Show threadBen RamseyFeb 19, 2024
@funkatron @blogdiva @antijingoist Me, too.