Eleanor SaittaWhy is this not happening in every European country, as an absolute minimum?
https://www.thelocal.fr/20230407/france-plans-70-supertax-on-fuel-for-private-jets
Claude@dymaxion fuels are highly taxed in France. This raise is not that strange. And it will have zero impact on people who own private jets.
@switch
Aviation fuel is tax exempt in every EU country currently.
Aviation fuel is tax exempt in every EU country currently.
Nathan Wierink
Ian Molton@dymaxion Only 70?
These people can pay 1000% tax on fuel without thinking.
@spyro
Aviation fuel is currently tax exempt in every European country, so this is still a nontrivial policy change.
Aviation fuel is currently tax exempt in every European country, so this is still a nontrivial policy change.
Saint Palermo@spyro @dymaxion WHY NOT go down the all-out ban route? Rich people can afford to pay more- but the planet cannot!
#BanPrivateJets makes much much more impact on both #ClimateCrisis AND the #inequality crisis.
Really- WHY NOT just #banprivatejets??
Jorge πΊπ¦πͺπΊπ³οΈβππ΅πΈ@dymaxion Also: thereβs a missing 0 in that number if itβs intended to be any kind of deterrent.
ansible42@tecnijota @dymaxion at least one zero
Jason
Jen@JasonEccles @dymaxion @janl but driving to a minimum wage job because there is no bus shouldn't be punished. We need alternatives and infrastructure first. Carrot before stick.
@JetlagJen I agree with you. We should have had the carrot by now. But politicians are lazy and greedy. Where I live, in Edinburgh, Scotland, the public owns the bus service, the tram service and the railways. But none of them are free. None of them are even close to free. Itβs disgusting.
Politicians are fiddling while Rome burns again. Itβs time for radical action. All transport in (every) city centre should be electric or public.
@JetlagJen letβs go crazy. If you could swap your car for an electric car today, for no charge, you would right?
The government could do that. Pay car companies for 33 million electric cars. All those jobs that would be created. And what would the cost actually be? We spent Β£400 billion fighting Covid. That would be Β£12,000 per car if the government handed out 33 million free cars to the public.
Think how many jobs would be created by that project? The social transformation π
@JasonEccles I'd rather swap it for decent public transport. Either way, the challenge is the infrastructure. The only way I could charge an ecar at home would be a cable across the public footpath. The nearest train station is single track without space to widen it.
Fundamentally, it all boils down to persuading politicians to do their damned job.
There's some sign of that happening here (Stoke-on-Trent). Council recently changed blue to red. Two most visible changes so far:
1. Massive crack down on fly tipping
2. Sponsoring bus tickets to make them cheaper
Tiny steps perhaps, but good direction of travel. We need more of this. A *lot* more.
Colm Γ Donnchadha@JasonEccles @dymaxion @janl there's no tax on aviation fuel, whereas there is a lot of taxes on petrol/diesel
snaeqe@dymaxion
@isotopp
Mesa be saying ever since, you only get to the people via their wallet. You can't just forbid stuff you deem "unwanted", but you can put a price tag on it.
Like this. Or like an "animal cruelty tax" on anything animal that gets lower the better the animals are treated. Unclear origins? Highest rate.
Also, this could for one be an application for #blockchain, to at least eliminate all that in-transit-curruption that makes horse meat into beef lasagna.
Magnus Ahltorp
RAK
Indy Richard π΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ Ώ@dymaxion I'd go further. Way further. What about a 70% supertax on space tourism or even on people who have more than one house?
Chris Laprun β@dymaxion @pilhuhn well, let's see if it really happens in France first. We talk a big talk but when it comes to walking the walk, different storyβ¦ Several laws that were looking great when announced got riddled with so many special cases as to become more or less void of any substance (see, for example, the interdiction of inner flights when a fast train exists for the same travel).
To be clear, though, it should happen. Heck, private jets should be forbidden or reserved for extreme cases.
To be clear, though, it should happen. Heck, private jets should be forbidden or reserved for extreme cases.
Heiko Rupp
*sigh*Ber nard@dymaxion weird news. There's no tax or excise on anything air travel related that I know of, a good start nonetheless.
We need air tax like road tax (in NL that means related to kg CO2/km). Excise and value-added tax on fuels/electricity, just like for car gasoline/diesel/LPG/kWh.
We need air tax like road tax (in NL that means related to kg CO2/km). Excise and value-added tax on fuels/electricity, just like for car gasoline/diesel/LPG/kWh.
ChrisT@dymaxion .. because the GB Prime-minister just flew to Scotland in a private jet to announce hundreds of new oil and gas licenses.. Undermining anything that individuals do them selves to stop climate change
ex or current IDF unwelcome@dymaxion They'll refuel somewhere else.
fronti 
rate limited@dymaxion at least in one country one of the governing party is the FDP so this is why it will not happen in every country
HistoPol (#HP) π΄ πΊπΈ π΄Eleanor Saitta (@[email protected])
Why is this not happening in every European country, as an absolute minimum? https://www.thelocal.fr/20230407/france-plans-70-supertax-on-fuel-for-private-jets
JΓΌrgen Hubert@dymaxion The tax-free status of aviation fuel enrages me whenever I think of it.
Heliograph@dymaxion just make this everywhere, full stop π¬
KΓ©vin β@dymaxion Yeah this isn't going to make a difference, this government are subscribers to the most violent kind of neo liberalism. If anything it is a token to the angry population, hoping we're stupid enough to eat it up.
We're talking chump change to people with wealth we can't even imagine
Detlef Steuer@dymaxion If it is possible in France , it is possible in every other country in Europe. Dear politicians, just do it! Now.
James Evans@dymaxion This is a neat idea. Whatever it raises, it affects only those most able to pay and discourages - albeit to minimal impact - the unsustainable practice of private flying. Seems like an easy change that would have majority support. Could also be extended to other similar things - private jets themselves, fuel for large yachts, high-end luxury goods, etc.
Marc Etienne@dymaxion as for Germany, the answer seems to be that the current transportation minister (Wissing) is pretty clearly in favour of using private jets. The best hope would be to make it an EU issue once first results from France are in.
Oktawian Chojnacki@dymaxion Only 70%? Peanuts
Glenn@dymaxion It also needs to happen in the US. In the case of Elon Musk, we should also require that passengers on-board bare footed over hot coals. Just a suggestion.
DavidB π₯@dymaxion Be careful with what the French government announces it will do, especially with the fight against the #ClimateCrisis. Macron and his ministers have become champions of making such announcements, that then get shared all over the world, give them good publicity, and usually amount to nothing in the real world. A very perverse form of greenwashing.
Remember last year, when they announced they'd ban domestic flights that fit some criteria (of time or distance, I forgot). It made the headlines all over the world "France is banning domestic flights!!!!"
In practice, it concerns two routes... Two routes...
I don't know the details of this announcement, but don't be surprised if it's a similar thing. (I'll check and see what I find)
Remember last year, when they announced they'd ban domestic flights that fit some criteria (of time or distance, I forgot). It made the headlines all over the world "France is banning domestic flights!!!!"
In practice, it concerns two routes... Two routes...
I don't know the details of this announcement, but don't be surprised if it's a similar thing. (I'll check and see what I find)
@dymaxion Update: it's a bill that was proposed last April.
It hasn't been voted into law yet. No news about it since April.
Don't hold your breath.
It hasn't been voted into law yet. No news about it since April.
Don't hold your breath.
Morten@dymaxion Considering how much rich people cheat on their taxes they will absolutely switch to a less taxed synthetic fuel as soon as it is available.
Dudula the Dud@dymaxion Because the rich know that in France the options are "Pay your taxes, or we dust off the guillotine!".
Sir David Nielsen@dymaxion @choyer I agree, also why isnβt this 700%, they will pay it and the damage they do compared to commercial flights or public mass transit definitely out sized by more than that, per seat.
AlexanderMars@dymaxion this will also get watered down to be effectively meaningless.
Kasey Smith 
@dymaxion This is a really good start and I hope their neighbors are watching.
Zed Not Zee β
@dymaxion planes βοΈ < trains π
CubeOfCheese@dymaxion love to see it
Southern Leftist@dymaxion
Hopefully Macron "President of the Rich" does not thwart this.
Hopefully Macron "President of the Rich" does not thwart this.
Donald R Noble@dymaxion no chance of Rishi Air Miles Sunak implement the in broken Britain despite the #climateCrises
Gatekeeper..@dymaxion
America needs to bring back the Luxury tax once imposed by George Bush. Fur, jewelry, cars trucks , BOATS, planes ...Billions of untaxed toys of the well healed.
America needs to bring back the Luxury tax once imposed by George Bush. Fur, jewelry, cars trucks , BOATS, planes ...Billions of untaxed toys of the well healed.
Parade du Grotesque πProbably because this is all BS on the part of the French government.
Macron talks a good talk - but rarely walks the walk.
@ParadeGrotesque
While I'm aware of macron's uh, unique approach to governance, let's say, they have absolutely followed through on the ban on short flights in France. This is entirely in line with that.
While I'm aware of macron's uh, unique approach to governance, let's say, they have absolutely followed through on the ban on short flights in France. This is entirely in line with that.
And his government has passed the most regressive ecological laws ever.
Even the short haul flight ban you mentioned could have been done much better and, especially, extended to private jets and 5h flights.
Once again, do not confuse governmental propaganda for a serious commitment to the protection of the environment.
Panoptikon Queen@dymaxion french here: trust me, will never happen under this government.
Pablo Martini@dymaxion Not in the UK it's anti rich people! Them showing how to enjoy their & OUR last year's! The cNUTZ!
beforewisdom 
I hope it is focused on business travelers and is not penalizing ordinary people trying to scrape up an occasional trip.
Gene Cowan π³οΈβπ@dymaxion @lisamelton Well, perhaps Trump will rethink his claim that he would rather live in France.
excited for the mastodon rise@dymaxion And America.
Adam Jacobs πΊπ¦@dymaxion Can't speak for other European countries, but here in the UK, there is a very simple answer.
We have a Prime Minister who likes to travel by private jet.
andrewWhy isn't this happening already?
No fuel duty is applied at the moment in UK (and EU?) I believe
No fuel duty is applied at the moment in UK (and EU?) I believe
Arena Cops πΊπ¦β@dymaxion Europe is targeting carbon emmissions on a broader scale, fining disadvantageous & harmful footprints of products entering its community.