2/ None of my go-tos are great. Interjecting, “can I please finish,” is the best I have. Raising your voice and repeating until they stop is aggressive and bitchy.
Letting them say whatever, totally ignoring, and starting over from the beginning also works but is super bitchy.
@mattwilcox @briannawu FWIW, as a fellow bloke, here's a bit of 'allyship' that I practice that many seem to find helpful:
When I'm in the room for a man pulling that BS (especially if it's "my" meeting), after 15-20 seconds, I'll cut the dude off w/ an explanation that they're off-topic, the ideas that they're proposing aren't feasible or change the scope of work (or all 3); then, I stop myself short, w/ a big "Oh, terribly sorry, Brianna, we interrupted you! You were saying?"
@briannawu @mattwilcox (I've been thanked more than once, so I have some inkling, but honestly, if it's just you, me, and the rest of the Fediverse, this seems like the bare minimum?)
(Side benefit: it seems like I'm the only one in my peer cohort of middle managers who can wrap up a 1-hour meeting, in, y'know, 1-hour. Probably just a coincidence...)
@RufusJCooter @mattwilcox @briannawu
THIS. You will also earn an ally in office politics for life.
This is not limited to men. Senior employees who step in to boost women, particularly young/junior employees, when they are being nullified is the best way of giving back.
@mattwilcox @briannawu One thing that may help is taking the guy aside outside the context of the meeting, like in private chat or something, and letting them know that what they're doing is rude and insulting and generally not OK.
There are plenty of testosterone poisoned buttheads out there that won't listen, but there are also PLENTY of guys who just need educating, and it's up to us to step in and help in that way so they don't have to, because it's not their job to teach adulting :)
Woman: "Hey, women..."
Man: "Hey, I'm a man, and I'm going to talk where women were asked to, like we always do"
🙄
@briannawu
Honestly, as AMAB, I think you have it reversed.
>> Interjecting, “can I please finish,” is the best I have.
This, we "find" bitchy - it is NOT, but it really grates :(
>> Raising your voice and repeating until they stop is aggressive and bitchy.
Is aggressive (and probably deserved). But is categorically NOT bitchy.
>> Letting them say whatever, totally ignoring, and starting over from the beginning also works but is super bitchy.
NOT #bitchy. Or #aggressive
@xdydx Yeah! ✊ Not aggressive and not bitchy! Let's normalize this and stop judging when women do this. Let's cheer each other on!
Yeah, why ask for permission from whomever it is behaving badly? Who are they to interrupt you...the person with the floor...?
Apologizing or asking for their permission does nothing but diminish YOU, not them.
They need to learn how to behave.
@briannawu @squizzleflip I think this is right. “Bitchy” is socially constructed & has to be deconstructed by allies with strong leadership skills. Practicing appropriate behavior — identifying misbehavior & gently asking someone to correct it — & then allowing the full discussion is probably the most productive way for change to occur.
Having said that, it pisses me off that I can’t just have the floor when it’s my turn & I have to measure my response.
@briannawu I embrace the aggro - add "stare directly at them with a neutral expression until they're done" to "[let] them say whatever, totally ignoring, and [start] over from the beginning" and it's what I used to do in tech. But as a friend of mine used to say, I can nail a man to the wall with my glare.
Also good is the occasional "If you would let me _finish my sentence_..." counter-interrupt and once in a while a sparking "OI! CHET!"
I'm not pretending it's optimal for your career 'cause it's not but I don't have better answers. Probably saved my sanity though. And I do have stories that, well... _I_ think they're funny. ("Did she just... _snarl at me?_")
You say "bitchy" as if we shouldn't be bitchy to these asshats
I speak louder and say "I was speaking", then continue.
They generally look startled and shut up.
@briannawu Did that once in the company of older (boomer) women and they came up later and said "HOW DO YOU DO THAT?!?!".
I told them I just say the words and enjoy the confusion on the face of the dude I addressed.
@JenWojcik Yeah! ✊I like your idea "I was speaking" because it doesn't ask a question. It is not aggressive.
@briannawu depends on how bad it is. I’ve often called it out- “I know you’re excited about this topic, but please let me finish first”. “You’ll get your turn here in a minute”. “excuse me, I was speaking”. “I’m not done talking”. “Are you done?” Wait for them to finish and then continue “As I was saying…”.
Sometimes I’ve talked louder over the person (maybe that’s not the best way though 😂🤣)
@gleeda That’s much nicer than my go tos. I’m going to use that, for real.
I think my problem is it happens so often it’s hard to not have the anger come through.
Stare pointedly at them and say "Excuse me, I was speaking".
Don't take that shit. From anyone.
@briannawu (*edit, I've had to do this at work when I deal with a lot of casual interactions in my professional line of work) Apparently I didn't realize I did this, but when a man tends to talk over me or try and control me into a topic I'm uninterested in pursuing, I do a redirect of their attention onto something else with a slight of hand. Almost like a magician. It usually works well until a guy refused to stop hitting on me during a normal conversation and said I wasn't staying on topic. His uncomfortable persistence allowed me to dead stop say I'm gay and then find a moment when it was awkward enough for him to not continue to reengage the control of the original topic and then eventually redirect my attention and talk to someone else.
I've had to become a pro at this because it's a constant problem when you're a nice and outgoing woman.
@briannawu let me explain to you, as a man, why this isn't an issue.
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Wait, why am I being down voted.
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I thought #Mastodon didn't have down votes.
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