HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴

@CStamp

#History #US #Europe
*On #Racism*

Very true.
Also, as #MatthewCooke in his #podcast series #AmericanOriginStories puts it,👉"the #US are a #SlaverNation." 👈All its institutions were built defending the landed gentry. (I learned a lot of new details of US history from it.)

https://i.sonnet.fm/qLiqAW2LBYG87ay57

#Europe, on the other hand, did have a history of #slavery and #racism (e.g. against #Jews and #Muslims), but its institutions...
@victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

May 1, 2023 at 1:43amTusky
Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua

#History
On #Racism

...did not develop to enshrine these concepts, as they were the result of historical struggles.

What is more, until the invention of the #NationState, arguable as conceived in the #TreatyOfWestphalia of 1648 (ending the #ThirtyYearsWar in #Europe), but not too prominent until the 19th century, it was common practice to redistribute fiefdoms through marriages and the like according to...

@ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua

On #Rascism

...political alliances. 👉Languages and cultures, and thus racism, in #Europe did not play the prominent role it played in the #US.👈 E.g. "At the time of the 1789 #FrenchRevolution, only half of the #French people spoke some French, and 12–13% spoke the version of it that was to be found in literature and in educational facilities, according to #Hobsbawm.

During the #Italian unification, the..."

@ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

On #Racism

"...number of people speaking the Italian language was even lower."

👉#Racism is chiefly seen as being touted in 20th century #Fascism, with its roots in 19th century #Imperialism and #Colonialism.👈

👉The #Feudalism of the #MiddleAges was no #Slavery and most #WesternEuropean nations were #Colonizers and not #Colonies, like all of the #Americas.👈

Therefore the...

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...dominating perspectives can never be the same, nor should they, in a "global market place of ideas".

I learned this month that the, in most countries in continental #Europe completely innocuous term #Eskimo is strongly #racist for the #Inuits. A #FirstNation member would hardly ever call itself a #NativeAmerican, as in the #US, though the latter is not offensive, just...

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...inappropriate for #Canada, where the term is #FirstNations.

So, in conclusion, it is hardly possible to express things in a completely inoffensive way for everyone.
That said, while I am quite willing to learn and try to avoid terms considered #racist in a certain group, this willingness ends where such requests collide with my understanding of language and/or is made in a rude or...

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...demanding way.

As the great scientist of the social systems theory says, all systems define themselves through borders.

If we are tolerant of each others "borders", including necessarily divergent uses of language which might not suit us at times, everyone can benefit.
That said, any...

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @ricardoharvin @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...repeat offenders of racial, religious, or sexual-(orientation) discrimination (slurs etc.) should be dealt with accordingly.

At least, this is my stance, and of course I will tolerate different, none-discriminatory points if view.

/END

Show threadRicardo HarvinMay 1, 2023

@HistoPol @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi You followed the wrong person here and just showed exactly who you are with this post.

Your understanding of language is meaningless in the context of this discussion and never grants you, or anyone, the right, or a valid reason, to use language that communities tell you is offensive, demeaning, or otherwise negative and inherently violent.

Times change and people must, also.

Be a better person; be willing to learn and improve.

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp

You obviously did not read my thread, nor my post, or did not understand it.

@victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Show threadRicardo HarvinMay 1, 2023

@HistoPol @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi I understood you think your understanding of language trumps a community's request for different terminology as long as you don't consider it to be openly or directly bigoted speech.

I'm saying that's not only not good enough, but not good at all.

Show threadRicardo HarvinMay 1, 2023
@HistoPol @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi Most of your thread was solid, this specific post is horrific.
Show threadRicardo HarvinMay 1, 2023

@HistoPol @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi For more than 50 years, I believed the word transsexual was correct and respectful, then I learned the preferred term by that community is transgender.

I learned, corrected myself by changing my understanding of the word, and seamlessly transitioned to use the better word even though I never used the original word pejoratively and have always accepted and respected the transgender community.

It's not about me, but about respect.

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin

I agree if that is what all if them feel, globally. That is a specialized term having no other connotation.

I would not claim to be an expert of the field but might this be a US/North-American perspective? And not a definite one at that?

"The term transsexual is a subset of transgender,[2][3] but some transsexual people reject the label of transgender.[4][page needed][5][6][7] "...

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual.

Also, it has been used in the scientific community for decades: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=transsexual&btnG=.

I am not saying that your perception of language is wrong and mine us correct. Far from it.
NY point is: language us not universal.

Transsexual - Wikipedia

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Not what I said at all.

Show threadRicardo HarvinMay 1, 2023

@HistoPol @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

"That said, while I am quite willing to learn and try to avoid terms considered #racist in a certain group, this willingness ends where such requests collide with my understanding of language and/or is made in a rude or..."

In your own words your willingness to avoid certain terms has a limit based on *your* understanding of language (or if someone hurts your feelings, apparently), so it's exactly what you said.

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Correct.

I also stated that is us hardly possible to express many things completely in an unoffensive way for a global audience and I gave quite a couple if examples.

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin
Let me give you another example of this:

#German is a highly "gender-friendly" language, in contrast to #Cherokee.

Many of the German-speaking #LGBTQIA+ community are quite fond and adamant of gendering. In contrast 2 English, it isn't just a question of pronouns, however. Many more things change + you usually get the 3 basic variants in all parts if the sentence, broadly speaking.
This...

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...not only elongates almost all sentences, it also makes it more prone to confusion and misunderstanding.

In short, from objective point of view, the vast majority of #German-speaking people suffers in understanding and clarity for a small minority.
For them, it is worth going "the extra mile", as they see a n identity issue. And I respect that. Also, in English, where it is usually a...

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

...mere "his/her" alternative, I try thinking of it when typing.
In German, however, while respecting the minorities way of expression, I refuse to rescind the clarity of language and brevity if content in none-gender relevant context.
And, as tolerance goes both ways, I expect it the other way round, too.

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi

E.g. "community's request"...I covered that with the "Eskimo" and "FirstAmerican" vs. "NativeAmerican" examples.

Also, IDK if you speak other languages fluently. E.g. in #Spanish, there are many words that are part of normal language in one country but which are deeply offensive or of sexual nature in another.
You simply cannot force a native speaker who is addressing an international audience..

Show threadHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴May 1, 2023

@ricardoharvin
...to change his/her/their (native-language) wording just to suit a small number of natives from another country where this might be offensive.

(However, I do not include not innocuous terms in this that stem from past colonial history, etc.)

@CStamp @victoriadecapua @MelodyCooper @BlackAzizAnansi