Taylor LorenzJournalists will never stick around this app long term sadly unless it adds quote posting. We desperately need it to communicate effectively, build on each others ideas, and add crucial context to posts. These are things replies simply do not accomplish. Also quote posting or reblogging does not = harassment! Tumblr, for instance, has had the feature since the beginning. We need it here now too 🙏🏻
Reblogging is organic user behavior and Twitter built the quote tweet feature because so many people were doing it manually already. It’s a huge burden on the user not to have this simple and important feature on a social platform imo (again just my personal opinion!)
John Breen@taylorlorenz I appreciate your opinion, while contending that you are wrong about this. No, you don't "need" quote tweeting, and lack of it inconveniences no-one, IMHO. It's not a "huge burden", to be sure.
Werewolf Bar Kochba@jab01701mid @taylorlorenz you didn’t “need” to post this response.
@jab01701mid I specified for journalists because I do believe it is a large burden and hamstrings our ability to contextualize and build on information. Again just my opinion! 😅
Wren Birdie@taylorlorenz
I don’t agree with your take on this Taylor. And it seems a lot of your posts since coming to fediverse have been to make it into Twitter.
This place is different. People want to engage. Maybe it’s a burden compared to that toxic cesspool of Elon’s but contextualizing the news you cover *can* be done. It might take a little more work and getting through the learning curve, but engaging with people here and telling us why your journalism is important can be done.
Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾@aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid tbh i am worried Mastodon will cave in and add this feature due to all the insistence ... I see this issue being raised a lot these days
aaron 
Kevin Carson@aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid "People here" include all the people who are here now, who don't necessarily share an insular set of norms frozen in time since 2017.
Johan Forsell@aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid The UX of Twitter has been fine tuned over a long time, so surely it has managed to develop at least a few good features. I really disagree with calling learning from that fine tuning ’making it into Twitter’. Just because we’re hating on Elon’s Twitter right now doesn’t make every feature inherently bad.
What’s the point of having more friction in contextualizing a post/comment/thought?
Christopher Hunter@joforselldev @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid
"What’s the point of having more friction in contextualizing a post/comment/thought?"
It took less than a quarter second to copy and paste that. Where is the friction?
It sounds more like this is a wrong tool for the job problem.
@chunter @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid What if it’s relevant who the original author is? Or if there’s images or videos attached? Or if it’s a whole thread?
Regardless if you think it’s very easy to do through other means, retweeting is a great tool to make commentary on an existing post. Not sure what the drawback(s) might be?
@joforselldev @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid Way at the beginning of this thread are people who probably had to silence it.
In the early days of the bird, even the back and forth we're doing now was not a thing, because it was a broadcasting medium, not a discussing one.
The preference is to use a #hashtag to mark your topic instead of commenting about a toot or individual person directly.
If you want to use a different medium to talk about a specific toot, knock yourself out.
@chunter @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I still don’t get the aversion to the feature? I can’t see any drawbacks.
I get that the hashtag here is used as a means of inviting to or joining in on a discussion of a specific topic, and this’ll surely take some getting used to. But are they necessarily mutually exclusive?
@joforselldev @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid You don't see a downside with thousands of notifications you can't block hitting your phone?
@chunter @aBirdieOnaWire @taylorlorenz @jab01701mid If that’s an issue, it’s a problem with implementation rather than the idea itself, imo.
Anil@jab01701mid @taylorlorenz the mastodon tools are definitely not well designed for the mainstream journalist use case. I think we can either find ones that are closer or (more likely) newer tools will arise soon that are a better fit.
Rich Stroffolino OLD ACCOUNT@anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz I feel like this is why (at least an attempt) for the Gmail-version of a Mastodon server: ad monetized, comes with a specific client that addresses these perceived gaps and adds functionality to make it user friendly. I’m not saying I want that, but I can see someone trying it. Of course it could be defederated by most servers if it’s perceived as breaking/forking the protocol… chicken, egg, etc.
@jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology a more institution-friendly fediverse server seems inevitable.
Sriram "sri" Ramkrishna - 😼@anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology Yes, I reckon that someone will have an instance that will have a fork of mastodon that includes quoting.
I don't agree with quote posting - it frequently is used to create hot takes or for mocking posts. I've never seen it used in a way that is positive. It just generates angst. It also puts others as the middle person/gateway on a tweet and allows the rise of influencers.
Journalists need to find other ways to do their journalism.
@sri @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology I share your view Sriram - I've used QT myself, but it's similar to publishing a copy of somebody else's book, with an extra page prepended to the front saying "Before you ready this, here's my take". Does not end up being a fair engagement of ideas in most cases, and better to link to an exact, specific quote with attribution to somebody else's work/speech.
@jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology If I want to refer to a toot/post - I just cut the url and then say something - but that extra step tends to stop me from doing a hot take but instead do something more nuanced.
mark@sri @jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology yep. It slows down the hot takes. Forcing that couple of seconds to keep emotions in check is a great possibly accidental feature.
And I totally agree with every point where this seems like a desire to bring attention to one person for another person's work. It's OK to be not-twitter. It's probably actually good
aethervision 
@ATLeagle @sri @jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology interaction > reaction > provocation
@jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology and yes, great points about attribution - it's just more respectful.
Joe Germuska@jab01701mid @sri @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology i think of it more like a note on an article clipped from a magazine, and a way to give credit to the source who exposed me to the idea.
@JoeGermuska @jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology
I think I would be pretty annoyed if I generated a content and everybody is discussing my content on the other person's timeline and everyone is over there talking about what I wrote. Worse, the QT was something negative so now you have a bunch of folks negatively talking about my content instead of engaging me directly.
I think I would be pretty annoyed if I generated a content and everybody is discussing my content on the other person's timeline and everyone is over there talking about what I wrote. Worse, the QT was something negative so now you have a bunch of folks negatively talking about my content instead of engaging me directly.
Thank you for the nice articulation against quote boost or quote post regarding “hot takes” or “bad faith takes” on content by journalists and large influencers. Journalists and influencers typically need quote posting, as a tool, to amplify a issue among users who are primarily in Mastodon as mentioned by you here. The post getting hijacked to another timeline is a collateral damage about which they would not care. Also there will be no motivation for them to use quote post embedding non-Mastodon platforms like Friendica, Pleroma, Misskey, Calckey, Akkoma etc. since Mastodon will not be recognising it.
I believe that the good actors will never mind those extra few steps to quote post on any platform while ensuring readability across other Fediverse platforms.
I like the above mentioned non-Mastodon platforms since none of them restrict me to 500 characters and help me avoid threads of posts which I personally find it stifling. Otherwise, Mastodon offers the essential features which is keeping the social media healthy till now. A newcomer will find it easier to join Mastodon compared to other Fediverse platforms due its rich ecosystem of well defined distributed communities and related code of conduct.
In my opinion, the best option is to use screenshots for quote posting since most (if not all) Fediverse platforms now support editing the post after posting.
#Mastodon #Fediverse #ActivityPub #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuotePost #QuoteBoost
Geoff Winkless@JoeGermuska @jab01701mid @sri @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology why not just boost the post? What you're actually saying is you want the audience numbers.
@Geoff @JoeGermuska @jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology
Audience on your unique timeline - because you can just as easily - respond to the original post and then boost your response. But then the responses all end up on the original poster's thread - something that apparently is undesirable.
Brian Jones@sri @Geoff @JoeGermuska @jab01701mid @anildash @taylorlorenz @mranthropology we shouldn’t be forced to engage with others to express ourselves; we shouldn’t have to join a conversation with our rapist in order to condemn something they said… there are plenty of terrible people I never want to “engage” with.
@Geoff no, that’s not what I’m actually saying
Alex Galt 🧄@sri @anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology
I don't dispute the thrust of what you wrote here, but it's just not the case that quote tweeting is never used positively. I've frequently seen it used (including by me) to affirm and spread great points that people have made.
@alex_galt @anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology
Of course, good actors will use it positively - but in the aggregate when you combine it with influencers - that's where it can get abused.
I agree, I just couldn't let the idea that it was never used positively stand. I frequently find myself missing it. Boosting is good, but sometimes I like adding context and some goodwill.
@alex_galt Which you can - you just copy the link. That extra step - is just enough to stop you from doing a knee jerk reaction and writing something and posting. :-) It is kind of building that "are you SURE you want to do that?" but without actually building that into the UX 🙂
@sri Ok, I'm satisfied by that. I hadn't really thought to do it that way.
Martin Rundkvist@sri @anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology I miss quote posting because personally I use it mainly to comment enthusiastically on stuff I like. But I know it's commonly used antagonistically by others.
Jon Henshaw@anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology right. Everyone has focused almost solely on Mastodon, but it could be solved with a fork of Mastodon or a competing platform. The only thing that matters is that it supports the ActivityPub protocol. The audience and post-viewing capabilities remain the same. The only difference might be the style formatting of a quoted post might be lost on Mastodon proper.
Iggy@anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz @mranthropology Literally Fediverse server apps Akkoma and Misskey already have quote-toots currently.
Olav@mranthropology @anildash @jab01701mid @taylorlorenz Tumblr is federating (16m users), and we shall see how that goes. Flickr (113m users) is still *might* and that would be interesting as well.
@TexasObserver is an example of a federated news org, and WaPo is "coming out with something exciting" and reliable sources suggest they may federate soon too.
I know Q/T has been bandied here for a long time and so far the consensus is it does more harm than good.
Kim Crayton ~ Her/She@taylorlorenz @anildash @jab01701mid once again many regular folx, particularly from marginalized communities, are being ignored…journalists aren’t the only folx who have used QT as an effective strategy for communicating…if Mastodon is going to be anything other than a “holding space” until something better, we can’t replicate Twitter’s issue of ONLY valuing the needs of some who’re considered “important” over others whose voice need to be heard
@KimCrayton1 @taylorlorenz @anildash @jab01701mid
I feel like it's a feature abused by so-called infuencers to take advantage. In some ways they even take credit. It also diminishes discourse if we rely on influencers/journalists to add their 'hot takes'.
I feel like it's a feature abused by so-called infuencers to take advantage. In some ways they even take credit. It also diminishes discourse if we rely on influencers/journalists to add their 'hot takes'.
Jen Roth ⚾ 👟@sri @KimCrayton1 There seem to be a lot of people in here who only see QTs as negative, partly because they don't listen to people who find them useful for communicating (not grandstanding). Maybe a solution could be reached that allows for the benefits while limiting the potential for abuse, but not if people just declare that QTs have no redeeming value.
@tealdeer @KimCrayton1
Sure - I think you should be forced to give attribution when you quote tweet. Many do QTs and then don't attribute the original content - and frequently people don't engage in the original post but on the influencers.
Sure - I think you should be forced to give attribution when you quote tweet. Many do QTs and then don't attribute the original content - and frequently people don't engage in the original post but on the influencers.
naught101@naught101 @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 But the conversations are redirected to that person's timeline not the original - you could for instance respond to the original post and then boost your response for engagement. For instance, you see many boosting my response on this thread - but the engagement stays on the original author's timeline.
@sri @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 that's not related to your original comment though..
And TBH on twitter I often found myself clicking the quoted tweet and then browsing the original thread an getting in to arguments, so I don't think your second point holds either.
Also there is something to be said for being able to splitting off tangential threads so that they don't derail the original discussion (but neither platform currently does this well)
enmodo ⚛️ 🧬 🇺🇦 🍉@naught101 @sri @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 I actually frequently did the opposite. I'd get into the comments, write what I thought was good stuff and then copy it to a new tweet by me. And I'd often just make that new tweet a quote tweet for context.
israel@enmodo @naught101 @sri @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 I actually many times retweet my replies when I wanted to make others aware about one topic and my position on that. Hey, I can do that in Mastodon too. I'm not missing QT, and I would not implement it after reading pros and cons.
@enmodo @naught101 @sri @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 Mastodon is not Twitter. I'm still learning it but so far I like that this is not just a clone. It had its own philosophy and it must continue to develop independent of Twitter. Different values, different product.
@enmodo @sri @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 this seems like a good use, but what would be wrong with just linking to the toot, the way people often do for blogs and news articles?
🏳️🌈 Lucy Wildboots 
@tealdeer @sri @KimCrayton1 or it might be that we do understand and we think they are wrong. It’s a little demoralizing to be talked down to by people who have been here less than a month.
@KimCrayton1 @LucyWildboots @sri I get why that's demoralizing. But I also get why people are frustrated at being told "this tool you're asking for doesn't have any legitimate uses" when they've just said that QTs have helped them build community.
@tealdeer @KimCrayton1 @LucyWildboots
It does have legitimate uses but it also encourages anti-community behavior. If you want to build community - build it on the merits - eg like people do on Instagram. Not by generating bad or hot takes on other people's content.
@tealdeer @KimCrayton1 @sri but that isn’t actually what they say. What they say is that the community must adapt or they will leave. Many of us are fine with them leaving. Though we have enjoyed reading their ‘it’s been X days since Twitter blocked us’ using Ted Koppel’s voice
@LucyWildboots @tealdeer @KimCrayton1 They should be happy right now for this very large engagement - and there are no QTs where conversations are happening elsewhere ;)
@LucyWildboots @sri @KimCrayton1 Yeah, I'm not a fan of how Taylor Lorenz kicked this thread off and I'm not referring to her. I'm talking about @KimCrayton1 's post in this thread, and lots of other posts from Black Twitter users in general.
@tealdeer @sri @KimCrayton1 my problem with that take is that there are stories all over talking about how Masto was built on disenfranchised communities. Does #BlackMastodon need this tool or support? Not the same argument.
@tealdeer @sri @LucyWildboots surprise, surprise…all Black folx aren’t the same which mean we have different needs…ho figure
@KimCrayton1 @tealdeer @sri I have some bad news: You aren’t the only marginalized community here. See that little stripey flag by my name? Yea. So if we can build safe communities without QT, maybe look into how we did it. Or you can just default to Twitter snark.
@LucyWildboots @KimCrayton1 @tealdeer That isn't a very nice response - the stripey flag should give you a greater sense of empathy for other marginalized communities and not tell them to piss off.