@fabiscafe @okapi espechally in the form of an interactive desktop...

  • I could see it valid for multiple shell sessions, but #tmux & #screen cover that pretty well.

  • If one has to login into different machines then chances are #aithentification is centralized anyway.

Needless to say #modernizations like #SystemD don't happen because people like #Poettering are "hobbyless", but because the preexisting status-quo (#SysVinit) was slow, inflexible and error-prone by strict linearity and non-parallelization.

  • With a literal /etc/init file one can literally get a system to hang due to a mistake (i.e. certain call doesn't get invoked correctly), whereas on #SystemD (and competing solutions like #LaunchD on #macOS and #SMF on #Solaris) your desktop / laptop will continue to noot even if it doesn't have a network connection.

Not to mention as Benno Rice explained: 'Shit just gotmore dynamic!': We don't have that one big ass maingrame and serial terminals, instead we have laptops that may he carried around a campus or traveled with all day and that constantly switch between wireless and wired networks and have VPN tunnels open and whatnot...

@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse

#SysVinit works well, and is a problem only if you care about booting time. That's not the case of everybody.
Anyway, lots of alternatives exist nowadays: runit, open-rc, s6, etc.
All these alternatives get the best of both worlds: they remain mainly script-based, and they are much faster than SystemV.

@halva +9001%

I've used @ubuntu 7.04 and @opensuse 10.2 and noone wants to go back to those ages when we had #WiFi problems, had to fiddle with #nVidia drivers and #AMD was just not an option!

  • Same with #SystemD: #SysVinit is shit and everyone who thinks it's reasonable amto wait 5-15+ mins for a desktop to boot is even mire delusional than #Xorg fans wanting to cancel #Wayland!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

The Tragedy of systemd

YouTube

The simplicity of SysVinit is appealing. It's basically just a set of different scripts that you configure for different so called run levels (0 to 6).

I do see why systemd is taking over. Having a system that works the same over different distributions is also appealing.

#sysvinit #systemd #linux

Systemd seems to be taking over more and more and there's a specific sub project within LFS to use that as the main process started by the kernel.

However, the default docs for LFS use the old school SysVinit. I think I'll go with this to start with. Maybe it's even possible to have different GRUB configurations so I can start the kernel with different inits? E.g. have the option to boot with SysVinit OR systemd.

#lfs #systemd #sysvinit #linux

@tauon @radmin not really tho.

Have you ever had to deal with #SysVinit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

I do so myself in my free time...

The Tragedy of systemd

YouTube

I have been a linux user for more than 20 years, and a Debian user for a good 15 years now. For the first time, I feel like something is off. systemd feels like a Frankenstein that does not belong. It makes the system feel brittle and vulnerable.

Perhaps some more reading is in order. But I am also starting to look into things like Devuan.

Thoughts? Interesting takes and links?

#linux #systemd #debian #devuan #sysvinit #openrc

@gettie @waifu I just think that's due to old programs refusing to change/noone fixing them to run on #Wayland.

  • #Xorg is #EoL / dead and the quicker we get things transitioned over the better.

This isn't even a matter of convenience and speed like with #SystemD vs. #SysVinit but a matter of #deprecated APIs & ABIs…

  • Just like #i386 support for #Linux got axed because it was way too painful to maintain and noone wanted to keep maintaining it!

Monkeying around with Devuan Linux (Excalibur) while absentmindedly listening in on a deployment bridge. Joys of not having 'root' on anything work related any more. Ha!

#Linux #Devuan #Excalibur #Debian #Systemd #init #sysvinit #runit #OpenRC

@ainmosni All the people harping on how #systemd is better than #sysvinit seem to have forgotten there were alternatives to sysvinit already...