Imperatrix Siina 
i love how systemd makes boot and shutdown so much slower lmao. especially shutdown.
Kevin Karhan 
@kkarhan I certainly have seen it. At least it didn't have its tendrils touching every conceivable part of the system like systemd likes to try and do.
@siina the nice part with #systemD is that you have the flexibility to add or remove things.
- It's closer to a "suite" rather than one fat binary (unlike #emacs!).
- Obviously the partsbdo integrate well with each other…
But #systemd, like #Steam, didn't win because they are excellent, but because competition either doesn't exist or is kinda incompetent to a degree…
@kkarhan Yeah. I'm not really against systemd or for it, I just want it to work. And for the most part it does, so I don't care if it's on some of my machines.
@siina same for me.
I doodle on some minimalost Linix from time to time but there's nothing wrong with just putting Ubuntu LTS on a machine and not microoptimizing it.
Reid 
@kkarhan @siina > the nice part with #systemD is that you have the flexibility to add or remove things.
except you really can't because everything has hard dependencies on other parts of systemd and by the time you sort the whole thing out, there are like 3 systemd components you don't strictly have to use on a system with the systemd init, but that you really can't use on a system with a different init without a lot of blood, sweat, tears, patching, and sacrifices to the lord of darkness
except you really can't because everything has hard dependencies on other parts of systemd and by the time you sort the whole thing out, there are like 3 systemd components you don't strictly have to use on a system with the systemd init, but that you really can't use on a system with a different init without a lot of blood, sweat, tears, patching, and sacrifices to the lord of darkness
@reiddragon @siina not necessarily…
It's just that all the other alternatives don't make much sense.
- Noone wants to go back from PipeWire to ALSA + VAAPI + Jack (or even OSS).
It is perfectly possible to make a non-#systemd - #Linux, in fact there are even #GNUfree Linux distros…
@reiddragon @siina it's quite adjacent tho.
Just like systemd-boot…
Felix Pehla@reiddragon @kkarhan @siina The only part strictly required by the init is sd-journald. Or do you mean that other parts of your desktop depend on stuff provided by systemd (like logind, tmpfiles.d, sysusers.d...) so you can't easily remove them even if it is technically possible?
@qwertviop @kkarhan @siina the init itself works standalone, but all the other components have various dependencies on each other and the init itself
as far as I know, systemd-boot is the only one you can kinda use by itself (but not bootctl to manage it), and logind was isolated as elogind but it was done with a lot of blood, sweat, and patching on every release
as far as I know, systemd-boot is the only one you can kinda use by itself (but not bootctl to manage it), and logind was isolated as elogind but it was done with a lot of blood, sweat, and patching on every release
Major Denis Bloodnok@kkarhan @siina IDGI - about the time systemd was rearing its ugly head, my then employer issued me the first machine I ever used with an SSD, which booted (with sysvinit) too fast to comfortably read the boot messages, just like every subsequent such machine I've used. The first time I started it I thought something was _wrong_. It's not clear one can get usefully much faster than that.
(This is masked on a lot of modern setups by the login screen taking an age to lumber into vlew, but I was using xdm.)
@denisbloodnok @siina that depends on what you want or expect.
Once you deal with a multitude of servers and services, you'll love journalctl -xe over syslog when it comes to debugging and detailed error reports.
But that's the Tragedy of #systemd.
The Tragedy of systemd
@denisbloodnok @siina regardless, #SystemD does boot faster simply because it doesn't go strictly linear but parallelizes startups and does dependency resolution on services.
- Which is way more convenient than #SystemVinit.
Cuz original #SysVinit s slow af.
- The only reason it's not feeling slow anymore is because we don't rock 2,5" 5400rpm IDE HDDs in laptops anymore but even most "budget" SSDs can saturate SATA-6G during reads, if not exceed it even in worst-case scenarios.
- And the only reason I didn't put
systemdinto @OS1337 as of now is the fact that I can't make it fit!
- And the only reason I didn't put
Emily 
@siina what about systemd specifically makes it slow? 
My Arch system pretty much shuts down instantly, except if something is wrong with a service of filesystem or whatnot, but that’s not systemd’s fault, is it?
I haven’t been using other init systems in a while, so I’m curious how systemd is slow
My Arch system pretty much shuts down instantly, except if something is wrong with a service of filesystem or whatnot, but that’s not systemd’s fault, is it?
I haven’t been using other init systems in a while, so I’m curious how systemd is slow
@evilemily i would say it's definitely a systemd shortcoming since I use OpenRC and i've never had shutdown hang on anything, even on this same machine (I ran it on systemd for the past month to test some things). On my laptop that uses cachy (and previously bazzite), it will hang on boot and shutdown too, despite being a fresh install.
@evilemily and to add more clarification, it's not even distribution-specific since it's happened on vanilla debian, too. 🥴
luna the doggie 
@evilemily @siina there's nothing in systemd that should cause this on its own, as far as I can tell long shutdowns only happen if you have services that are either misconfigured, don't respond to SIGTERM, or otherwise have some problem where they end up blocking a shutdown because the service didn't stop
I think it may also be possible to misconfigure a service so bad that systemd will not know that it has shut down when it has but like, that's not the fault of the service manager
I think it may also be possible to misconfigure a service so bad that systemd will not know that it has shut down when it has but like, that's not the fault of the service manager
Haelwenn /элвэн/ 
@siina
A stop job is running [15mins...]@[email protected] My favourite part is when it says it times out after 60s but 200 have passed 🥴
Pink Rhododendron
bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
Crandel 🇺🇦 
@siina
$ systemd-analyze plot > /tmp/start.svg
$ xdg-open /tmp/start.svg