Gordon McdowellFeb 2
obrhoff

RE: https://mastodon.scot/@mattgemmell/115996329653867959

Great writeup. I think people just need go start accepting that the company they loved doesn’t exist anymore.

its like with the Ship of Theseus. If you replace all the parts (the people), is it still the same ship?

Feb 1 at 5:54pmIvory for iOS
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@obrhoff there’s a careful balance here. It doesn’t exist anymore but I think we can and should also make that very uncomfortable in Apple spaces basically forever.
Show threadobrhoffFeb 1
@mattiem Not sure if I understood what you said 😅
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1

@obrhoff sorry!

What I mean is I think it is a mistake to just accept this and try to act like it’s normal.

Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff There is not much you can do about it but buying at better alternative places. Which seems surprisingly hard.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @obrhoff I think boycotting such an entrenched entity is, as you say, hard. It might may you feel better though, and that’s important and I support it.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Thinking it is that entrenched is a mistake, IMO. They are good, but there are, not great, but perfectly acceptable options.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff I think this is more obvious in non-NA markets where Apple is a major player but not the majority.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @obrhoff could be!
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Buy a $150 Samsung phone to toy with it. I did. I don’t *want* that and it doesn’t compete ignoring externalities, but it is surprisingly good and capable.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @obrhoff no doubt! While very different, I think e-ink phones are super interesting.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Along those lines I never bought an Apple watch and I’m currently back to my Pebble 😬
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff It’s not really about being cooler though, but having a backup tech that is good enough for your daily needs. And that exists!
That’s why Swift Android stuff is interesting for us Swift people.
Show threadRob FahrniFeb 1
@helge @mattiem @obrhoff I see a lot of folks switching to Linux.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@fahrni @helge @obrhoff I hate to be a pessimist but I don’t expect this will be a significant factor. Would love to be wrong though!
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff It already is a significant factor. Most mobiles on the world run Linux. You probably have more desktop Linux in France than macOS and it’s probably kinda quit in Germany.
Back then, many of us Linux people, switched to macOS because it had better UI. It’s not on par yet with macOS but definitely with Windows, the actual majority on desktop.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fahrni @obrhoff well then I look forward to a material market effect!
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff I think it will have market effects too (I mean it already does everywhere but NA for mobile), but digital sovereignty is certainly a huge driver today as well. Sure, mostly to get rid of M$, since that is the most relevant thing on desktop, but Apple along the run. The latter is harder but also a minority / slightly less important.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff Or maybe in other words, if M$ or Apple would be disallowed to sell stuff in the EU tomorrow, either because the EU rules so or Tim does, I would be f*ck that!, but it wouldn't really affect my life significantly.
Those are commodity products by now and perfectly reasonable options exist. 🤷‍♀️
Show threadFranklin Delano StalloneFeb 1

@helge @mattiem I switched from Thinkpad + Linux to macOS along time ago for that reason.

It feels like, for devs at least, Linux is very common followed by Macs unless their software is for windows. That works very well imo even if there are still random bugs with audio.

I'm not sure if Linux can ever be mainstream for normal people though. There can be issues with DRM content and even if they can easily be fixed we trained people not to be curious about their computers.

Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@fds @mattiem Linux is mainstream for all Android users, which is the majority of people using phones in most parts of the world. That it isn't for "normal people" is just ridiculous.
On the desktop side, I don't think it is any worse than Windows. And that's not due to Linux being particularly good there, but it is still true 🙂
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fds right Google makes that possible
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fds Samsung does 🙃
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fds well I hope nothing but success for Samsung here!
Show threadFranklin Delano StalloneFeb 1

@helge @mattiem Yes, I should have said I was thinking more from the desktop / laptop side which might be an outdated point of view anyway. 😅

I think it is better than windows. I think I’d struggle to convert family members and that's just because people who do not care as much about tech get in a panic if it's different so if they hit a driver issue, I'd expect it to just be assumed it's broken. Imo it's the same reason android / iOS people get frustrated when swapping even if both are fine.

Show threadNick LockwoodFeb 1
@helge @mattiem @obrhoff I'm not sure what the goal would be of buying a Samsung device? Nothing Samsung (or Google) has done makes me think they are more customer or quality-focussed than Apple. They want to be just like Apple, but they never understood what made Apple good in the first place, and now the good Apple doesn't even exist for them to copy anymore.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff I do think taking market away from an American company, if nothing else, is good.
Show threadamonduinFeb 2
@mattiem @nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff at this point those of us with the technical and financial wherewithal should look at smaller alternatives like fair phone or jolla phone, try to avoid Qualcomm based phones and choose mediatek instead. There are small sacrifices in usability and ecosystem but at this point, where the US appears headed, and Apple right along with them, why give any money to them?
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 2
@amonduin @mattiem @nicklockwood @obrhoff Because many of us in this particular circle are attached to the specific software infrastructure. But that can be fixed, there just has to be the "click" moment, that it doesn't work the way it used to be anymore anyways. It's a major step to take.
Show threadJoe Groff (1M Context)Feb 3
@mattiem @nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff it's a bit of a faustian bargain, but going with the Google phone rather than the Samsung would let you run GrapheneOS instead of googled android
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 3
@joe @mattiem @nicklockwood @obrhoff FWIW I got one to test mobile web interfaces, not to run native apps 😬
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@nicklockwood @mattiem @obrhoff They are definitely not better on the quality of the software, but they are still important as a viable backup. Trying it, gives you a glimpse in what you can work with in the future. Apple is not good anymore, it hasn't been for a long time, I suppose we should make a hard cut? And then work on something which reestablishes the quality focused operation.
Most FOSS is certainly much more quality focused than enterprise operations.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@nicklockwood @mattiem @obrhoff Like say KDE is certainly not an environment I would love to work in/with, but I think it is out of question that this is a professionally run and consistent development environment.
Show threadPaul CantrellFeb 3

@nicklockwood @helge @mattiem @obrhoff

“Why are all cell phone manufacturers morally objectionable” seems like a question that could have a deeply illuminating systems thinking sort of answer

Show threadobrhoffFeb 1

@mattiem The political stuff for sure. About the rest, I think it’s a normal thing. I know plenty of people who left their startups when they turned into corporates.

Also Matt, I like you, but if you ever turn into a zombie, I will not hesitate to chop off your head, since the Matt I knew was already dead and it was just a walking shell.

Nothing personal 🧟

Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@obrhoff yes!! I approve!
Show threadIan WagnerFeb 2
@obrhoff @mattiem 😂
Show threadJustin ScholzFeb 1
@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell Apple switched from deriving their profits from delivering customer delight to using leverage of having existing customers to charge access for those. It‘s a bit like advertising but with a hardware margin on top.
Show threadJustin ScholzFeb 1
@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell services revenue will continue for a long time even when delight is gone. Lock in makes sure of that.
Show threadJeff AtwoodFeb 1
@obrhoff it’s very simple; never pledge allegiance to a company. You only thing we should ever be pledging allegiance to is team humanity.
Show threadMachielFeb 2
@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell there is no ship, only a collection of planks!
Show threadDaniel GomesFeb 2

@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell Agree 100%. Well written piece and accurately sums it up. The root of this,imo, is that Apple is listed on the Stock Market. All decisions under Tim have been to pander to stock prices.

Apple needs to go private so that its decisions are only based on its core value: make a dent in the universe. That’s what it’s supposed to be doing. Irrespective of stock prices or anything else. Just make insanely great products and services.

Tim turned Apple into IBM.

Show threadDaniel GomesFeb 2

@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell But even though Tim is the face of that, imo the root cause that caused him to drive in this direction is Stock Price.

That’s why we get the same iPhone for 5 years: using the same parts with no new tooling and minimal R&D results in higher profit margin. Which leads to higher stock value.

Tim doesn’t think about innovation nor does he inspire it. It’s is he who put the breaks on Siri development for example. Stock value is his only waking thought.

Show threadDaniel GomesFeb 2

@obrhoff @marcoarment @mattgemmell Liquid Glass is just the final straw in a long line of failings at Apple.

Take the iMac for example. Once upon a time it was THE defining iconic Apple product. Only Apple had an all-in-one as beautiful and renowned. And loved.

But they let it languish and the best they can do is new colours. wtf??? The old silver iMacs looked way better. These new ones are ugly as f. How do you destroy an icon?

They almost did the same to the MacBook until the backlash.

Show threadTuomas Hämäläinen 🇺🇦Feb 2
@obrhoff I see it kind of like climate change. We can and should accept that it’s a thing, but that doesn’t mean we should sit around doing nothing about it.
Show threadKonstantin 🔭Feb 2
@tuomas_h @obrhoff you mean like resist it or look elsewhere?
Show threadTuomas Hämäläinen 🇺🇦Feb 2
@iamkonstantin @obrhoff I meant resisting in this case, trying to inflict change from within the ecosystem. Looking elsewhere (which is a valid thing to do and could also have desirable effects!) doesn’t quite work with the climate change analogy 😅