obrhoffFeb 1

RE: https://mastodon.scot/@mattgemmell/115996329653867959

Great writeup. I think people just need go start accepting that the company they loved doesn’t exist anymore.

its like with the Ship of Theseus. If you replace all the parts (the people), is it still the same ship?

Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@obrhoff there’s a careful balance here. It doesn’t exist anymore but I think we can and should also make that very uncomfortable in Apple spaces basically forever.
Show threadobrhoffFeb 1
@mattiem Not sure if I understood what you said 😅
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1

@obrhoff sorry!

What I mean is I think it is a mistake to just accept this and try to act like it’s normal.

Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff There is not much you can do about it but buying at better alternative places. Which seems surprisingly hard.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @obrhoff I think boycotting such an entrenched entity is, as you say, hard. It might may you feel better though, and that’s important and I support it.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Thinking it is that entrenched is a mistake, IMO. They are good, but there are, not great, but perfectly acceptable options.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff I think this is more obvious in non-NA markets where Apple is a major player but not the majority.
Show threadMatt Massicotte
@helge @obrhoff could be!
Feb 1 at 9:35pmIndigo
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Buy a $150 Samsung phone to toy with it. I did. I don’t *want* that and it doesn’t compete ignoring externalities, but it is surprisingly good and capable.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @obrhoff no doubt! While very different, I think e-ink phones are super interesting.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff Along those lines I never bought an Apple watch and I’m currently back to my Pebble 😬
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @obrhoff It’s not really about being cooler though, but having a backup tech that is good enough for your daily needs. And that exists!
That’s why Swift Android stuff is interesting for us Swift people.
Show threadRob FahrniFeb 1
@helge @mattiem @obrhoff I see a lot of folks switching to Linux.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@fahrni @helge @obrhoff I hate to be a pessimist but I don’t expect this will be a significant factor. Would love to be wrong though!
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff It already is a significant factor. Most mobiles on the world run Linux. You probably have more desktop Linux in France than macOS and it’s probably kinda quit in Germany.
Back then, many of us Linux people, switched to macOS because it had better UI. It’s not on par yet with macOS but definitely with Windows, the actual majority on desktop.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fahrni @obrhoff well then I look forward to a material market effect!
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff I think it will have market effects too (I mean it already does everywhere but NA for mobile), but digital sovereignty is certainly a huge driver today as well. Sure, mostly to get rid of M$, since that is the most relevant thing on desktop, but Apple along the run. The latter is harder but also a minority / slightly less important.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fahrni @obrhoff Or maybe in other words, if M$ or Apple would be disallowed to sell stuff in the EU tomorrow, either because the EU rules so or Tim does, I would be f*ck that!, but it wouldn't really affect my life significantly.
Those are commodity products by now and perfectly reasonable options exist. 🤷‍♀️
Show threadFranklin Delano StalloneFeb 1

@helge @mattiem I switched from Thinkpad + Linux to macOS along time ago for that reason.

It feels like, for devs at least, Linux is very common followed by Macs unless their software is for windows. That works very well imo even if there are still random bugs with audio.

I'm not sure if Linux can ever be mainstream for normal people though. There can be issues with DRM content and even if they can easily be fixed we trained people not to be curious about their computers.

Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@fds @mattiem Linux is mainstream for all Android users, which is the majority of people using phones in most parts of the world. That it isn't for "normal people" is just ridiculous.
On the desktop side, I don't think it is any worse than Windows. And that's not due to Linux being particularly good there, but it is still true 🙂
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fds right Google makes that possible
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@mattiem @fds Samsung does 🙃
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@helge @fds well I hope nothing but success for Samsung here!
Show threadFranklin Delano StalloneFeb 1

@helge @mattiem Yes, I should have said I was thinking more from the desktop / laptop side which might be an outdated point of view anyway. 😅

I think it is better than windows. I think I’d struggle to convert family members and that's just because people who do not care as much about tech get in a panic if it's different so if they hit a driver issue, I'd expect it to just be assumed it's broken. Imo it's the same reason android / iOS people get frustrated when swapping even if both are fine.

Show threadNick LockwoodFeb 1
@helge @mattiem @obrhoff I'm not sure what the goal would be of buying a Samsung device? Nothing Samsung (or Google) has done makes me think they are more customer or quality-focussed than Apple. They want to be just like Apple, but they never understood what made Apple good in the first place, and now the good Apple doesn't even exist for them to copy anymore.
Show threadMatt MassicotteFeb 1
@nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff I do think taking market away from an American company, if nothing else, is good.
Show threadamonduinFeb 2
@mattiem @nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff at this point those of us with the technical and financial wherewithal should look at smaller alternatives like fair phone or jolla phone, try to avoid Qualcomm based phones and choose mediatek instead. There are small sacrifices in usability and ecosystem but at this point, where the US appears headed, and Apple right along with them, why give any money to them?
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 2
@amonduin @mattiem @nicklockwood @obrhoff Because many of us in this particular circle are attached to the specific software infrastructure. But that can be fixed, there just has to be the "click" moment, that it doesn't work the way it used to be anymore anyways. It's a major step to take.
Show threadJoe Groff (1M Context)Feb 3
@mattiem @nicklockwood @helge @obrhoff it's a bit of a faustian bargain, but going with the Google phone rather than the Samsung would let you run GrapheneOS instead of googled android
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 3
@joe @mattiem @nicklockwood @obrhoff FWIW I got one to test mobile web interfaces, not to run native apps 😬
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@nicklockwood @mattiem @obrhoff They are definitely not better on the quality of the software, but they are still important as a viable backup. Trying it, gives you a glimpse in what you can work with in the future. Apple is not good anymore, it hasn't been for a long time, I suppose we should make a hard cut? And then work on something which reestablishes the quality focused operation.
Most FOSS is certainly much more quality focused than enterprise operations.
Show threadHelge HeßFeb 1
@nicklockwood @mattiem @obrhoff Like say KDE is certainly not an environment I would love to work in/with, but I think it is out of question that this is a professionally run and consistent development environment.
Show threadPaul CantrellFeb 3

@nicklockwood @helge @mattiem @obrhoff

“Why are all cell phone manufacturers morally objectionable” seems like a question that could have a deeply illuminating systems thinking sort of answer