warrenkoppJan 31
Anon Opin
Not everyone can afford a smartphone. Stop making it the primary, and sometimes the only, interface for day to day services. It's like when companies move their customer facing information onto Discord. It's shit. Fucking stop it.
Jan 31 at 1:55pmanon_opin
Show threadC++ Wage SlaveJan 31

@anon_opin

Yes!

And it's not just money. Imagine trying to use a smartphone if you had Parkinson's, or age-related macular degeneration, or mild cognitive impairment. Imagine using one if you lived with an abusive partner who demanded your Pin and punished anything he saw and didn't like. Imagine needing to get rid of your smartphone to help beat your online gambling addiction, and then finding you were locked out of modern society.

We think too easily of new and shiny things, and we forget the people who don't fit the mould, who get left to fend for themselves.

Show threadmattgJan 31
@CppGuy @anon_opin especially aggravating when governments do it.
Show threadAdvanced Persistent TeapotJan 31
@CppGuy @anon_opin 100%. If your service is online, it should be possible to conduct through a website with an app as an *option*. And if the website is harder to use then you are Doing It Wrong.
Show threadFriekeJan 31
@CppGuy this!
E.g. Mother in law is internet savvy but due to shaking rheumatoid hands she has the hardest time operating a phone. She told she needed an hour of repeated tries to take a pic of her ID for banking purpose 😑
@anon_opin
Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsJan 31

@CppGuy @anon_opin

I know elderly people who are not phone savvy who should definitely not have smart phones, especially not attached to anything like banking. I have elderly family members who would be excluded from eating at a lot of restaurants these days because the only way to pay and order is by scanning a QR code. On principle, I walk out of these places and tell them why.

Anytime participating in the basic functions of life and society requires a smart phone, it creates an exclusionary system. (Note I said exclusionary and not discriminatory because the last time I said "discriminate" some pedant who probably works for a surveillance company took umbrage.)

Show threadStackyJan 31
@Mikal @CppGuy @anon_opin I feel like the QR menu is an ADA violation
Show threadGreg BellJan 31
@CppGuy @anon_opin @wendynather the same people who don't get this also think poor people are making "bad decisions" for spending money on a smartphone while poor.
Show threadMJ RayFeb 2

@CppGuy @sunflowerinrain @anon_opin a lot of people with Parkinson's can use smartphones better than you.

Some can't, so the general objection to smartphone-required services still holds, but let's not make ableist generalisations about it.

Show threadZenobia ŻaczekJan 31
@anon_opin the poor people I know have no laptops, but they all have smartphones. In fact, it is their only personal computer.
Show threadCindʎ Xiao 🍉Jan 31

@zenia @anon_opin Yep that's exactly right. For most people the smartphone is the cheap, easily obtainable, capable computing device. And for most people it is where they do all their computing.

Not everyone can afford a new flagship phone. But plenty of people afford cheap android phones

Show threadL'égrégore André ꕭꕬFeb 1
@cxiao @zenia @anon_opin I think "afford" can be read in the wider sense, like in this reply: https://infosec.space/@CppGuy/115990135345240427
C++ Wage Slave (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Yes! And it's not just money. Imagine trying to use a smartphone if you had Parkinson's, or age-related macular degeneration, or mild cognitive impairment. Imagine using one if you lived with an abusive partner who demanded your Pin and punished anything he saw and didn't like. Imagine needing to get rid of your smartphone to help beat your online gambling addiction, and then finding you were locked out of modern society. We think too easily of new and shiny things, and we forget the people who don't fit the mould, who get left to fend for themselves.

Infosec.Space
Show threadCassandrichJan 31
@zenia @anon_opin Yeah, garbage Androids are basically free, and it's nearly impossible to get a "non-smart" phone anymore. The same conclusions apply but "can't afford" isn't the reason.
Show threadmirabilosJan 31
@dalias @zenia @anon_opin but garbage Androids are much less secure than dumbphones…
Show thread(Matthew)=> 🏳️‍🌈🇿🇦🎮💻📖Jan 31
@mirabilos @dalias @zenia @anon_opin Yeah but poverty often excludes you from privacy protection, and dumb phones are either old stock or niche products while a mass produced truly bottom of the barrel android can be made for a few dollars and sold for $20 or less. If I had to choose between a dumb phone and a mobicel or whatever, I can bank, scan QR codes, install library and university apps, install an ad blocking browser... It's not a good experience but it does let me interact with society.
Show threadmirabilosFeb 1
@zenia @dalias @anon_opin @mdstevens0612 oooh, you ESPECIALLY should not use an unsecure Android for banking
Show threadmirabilosFeb 1
@mdstevens0612 @dalias @zenia @anon_opin also, unsecured smartphones are prticipating in DDoS on servers due to backdoored äpps making them part of botnets for AI and other crawlers
Show threadJessamynJan 31
@dalias @anon_opin @zenia I work in a public library and there's a handful of people I see regularly who don't have smart phones including our library director. And they just use the libraries free computers. I think it's really important to have multiple ways of interacting with companies and governments that aren't just limited to smartphone apps.
Show threadcraignicolJan 31
@jessamyn @garbageman @dalias @anon_opin @zenia important to note that laptop screens are bigger and easier to read than smartphones, schools often use Chromebooks and many ban phones, many apps don't work on older or cheaper smartphones (see all the phones that stopped supporting WhatsApp recently), laptops often have better privacy features (such as a physical camera block and a system wide microphone mute), smartphones make ad blocking harder, and off doesn't always mean off
Show threadLisPiFeb 1
@dalias @zenia @anon_opin The bloated apps don't run on the garbage-tier Androids, they require too much memory.

Even when they do run, they're unusably slow and frequently crash (yes, I know this from experience).
Show threadRastalJan 31
@zenia @anon_opin Arguably, they'd be better off with computers than smartphones. Smartphones aren't a substitute for computers. Smartphones are for consuming content, that's all they are good for. They aren't good for creating anything.
Show threadZenobia ŻaczekJan 31
@Rastal @anon_opin I'm not going to be the one to tell them what to do with their lives. I'm just stating a fact. Poor people are more likely to have smartphones than laptops. Make mobile friendly web sites if you want them to read your content.
Show threadDr. Michael HfuhruhurrJan 31
@zenia @anon_opin There should be options that don't involve computers.
@drahardja
Show threadZenobia ŻaczekJan 31
@ben @anon_opin @drahardja but I agree
Show threadDidekJan 31

@anon_opin

Stop demanding Apple / Google approved smartphones, this would unlock every device by side effect too.

Show thread Ibly 🏳️‍⚧️ Jan 31

@anon_opin not even just “afford” a smartphone, i straight up do not want a smartphone. why the hell would i carry around a Distraction Rectangle when i’m fighting tooth and nail against my ADHD?

everything is vying for your attention, the apps are designed to do that

i want my phone to be purely a communications device, and it’s hard to not be tempted by apps that do more than just that. all those little app restriction things don’t work, because it’s extremely easy to just uninstall them

Show threadKeithJan 31
@anon_opin or my dad, losing short term memory and being very biddable, where we played whack-a-mole with scam artists for years until he passed this year. No one, not police, banks or lawyers could/would help.
Show threadan actual busJan 31
@anon_opin I'm a non-smartphone-user because I absolutely loathe the business practices of both google and apple, and it fucks me dead that we've collectively accepted you basically owe your identity to either of these two in order to fully participate in society.
Show threadBlind MapmakerJan 31

@renardboy @anon_opin

Same here.

Show threadBlind MapmakerJan 31
@anon_opin Very true! And not everybody wants a spy device in their pocket too!
Show thread🤯Matera the Mad🤯Jan 31

@anon_opin
I, too, deplore the phonification of the Internet. However, it isn't simple.

Some people can't afford anything. They have two options:
1. Use library (or friends', or other publicly available)
computers.
2. Apply for a free Lifeline phone . 🙄

IMO phones give prople a false sense of freedom and ease of use. Computers also require a separtat internet connection and maintenance, and msy br scarier than fewns, partly because fyewwns are visible everywhere.

Discord 🤮

Show threadJason Evangelho 🐧🎒Jan 31
@anon_opin And with the current pricing crisis surrounding memory and flash storage, it's only going to get worse.
Show threadDana McFarland 🍁 🔥🐎Jan 31
@anon_opin "or you can apply for a hardware token," they said.
Show threadFals Fiction 💜🏳️‍🌈Jan 31
@danamcfarland a what?
Show thread🔮 oracle of dylphi :crumb_dancing: 🇬🇾Jan 31
@anon_opin borrowing from the language and ideas of Achille Mbembe and the theory of Necropolitics, doing stuff like this is a form of choosing who gets to be served and who doesn't. When that service includes public medical, financial, and housing material, developers are quite literally choosing who is allowed to die from hazards that these services are supposed to prevent.

Even if it doesn't go that far, it creates a really hard limit on how I as a digital services volunteer can help people in need. If you've got a smartphone-reliant service, I can't help a person get access to that using library/public computers. The only scheme I know about (in where I live) that provides free devices for people in this position can take months to provide relief. And yet people treat smartphones like they're naturally occurring and you can just pick them off of trees smh my head
Show threadAriaflameJan 31
@anon_opin For me it's when Facebook is their only access point.
Show threadDavid Brent 📚Jan 31
@ariaflame @anon_opin This doesn't get talked about enough. Any conversation about the evils of Google and Apple should also include Facebook. Facebook doesn't make a phone, so it gets treated differently even though its business practices are just as sketchy, if not worse.
Show thread🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳Jan 31
@anon_opin
too late for that. Better everyone stop shamming poorer people who own smartphones for frivolous spending, when they are now essential for modern living.
Show threadDaisyJan 31
@anon_opin There are those who cannot (or will not if you insist) learn how to use one too. Also - those "services" are only available for the two major OS's. Free coercion for apple and google.
Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31
@anon_opin @dbsalk Ditto for Facebook. If Facebook is the only way you communicate with customers, you won't be communicating with me because I won't be a customer.
Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

one of the saddest things I see is when small businesses neglect their independent website for Facebook, and then don't even bother to update the bit of FB that you can see without having a login, to the point you don't even know if the business is still operating as their last post is 3 years ago!

I think the wider problem is a lot of business owners don't really *want* to communicate with their customers (and then wonder why they go bust within a few years)

Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31
@vfrmedia @anon_opin @dbsalk I think you're right, at least on some level. But I also truly believe that small business owners think all they need to do to build a business is put themselves on a site like Facebook and sit back and wait for the customers to come. Same goes for Instagram and Twitter and anything else. They don't seem to care that these platforms do not give them exposure to ALL potential customers.
Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

I deleted my FB, Messenger and Instagram accounts some months ago - one thing I noticed when I was using them is Messenger is *not* reliable for the level of real-time messaging you would need for a business transaction (even compared to SIgnal, SMS or a telephone call).

And FB will equally direct people to their competitors, and in a small country like England has 0 sense of geography/distance (this is a very common flaw with all USA developed social networks)

Show threadAndrew (Television Executive)Jan 31

@vfrmedia @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk as a business owner (with websites) I tend to try to spend more time running my business than dealing with either social media or my website.

Both are huge burdens that are neccisary to doing business while actively taking time away from the business in which I am trying to engage.

And i say that as someone who is good at these things.

Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@ajroach42 @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

thing is you still put in the effort, and have a physical presence which shows your businesses are definitely active - I can see that all the way from England!

Many businesses round here don't even do that, if you try and telephone them often no one answers, in some cases you could physically visit them but its not always feasible or worth the effort if they are some distance away...

Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31

@ajroach42 @vfrmedia @anon_opin @dbsalk I agree with you 100%. I did have social media for my businesses and abandoned it. I still have a website for my jewelry business, but it has become such a hassle to update my work on that site as well as my online shop site that now I just pretty much point everyone to my online shop.

I'd rather run my business, make new inventory, and have a life than try to keep up with social media for the one or two new customers it might generate in a month.

Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@mlanger @ajroach42 @anon_opin @dbsalk

both of you do still update both the indie website and the online shop regularly (accounting for the fact that hand made jewellery and toys aren't made overnight)
and even publish actual telephone numbers and physical addresses, which for many small businesses is becoming rare these days - plus you have genuine, high quality products which are verifiable.

I see too many businesses round here (especially linked to social media channels) where the owners are clearly drop shipping same stuff from Amazon and Ebay (maybe with their own branding), they never publish where their business is located, and make it hard to contact their customer service if anything goes wrong with shipments etc..

Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31
@vfrmedia @ajroach42 @anon_opin @dbsalk Oh, yes. My business website contains contact information, including a phone number (I think). I'm also religious about updating the calendar of events, which is where people can find out what art shows I'll be at. That's all done automagically by embedding the Google calendar on the webpage; every time I update the calendar, the page is updated. Occasionally I'll add a post about an upcoming show I'm excited about or a new style of earrings I'm making.
Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31
@vfrmedia @ajroach42 @anon_opin @dbsalk Arbitrage is a thing. People will find products on Amazon and advertise them for sale at slightly higher prices. All they need to do is order the item and have it shipped directly to the seller, leaning hard on prime shipping to ship for free. I've been bitten by this in the past; I purposely did not buy an item on Amazon but the person I bought it from had it drop shipped from Amazon, pocketing the $10 price difference. I was extremely pissed off.
Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31

@vfrmedia @anon_opin @dbsalk EXACTLY! All of this.

I ditched Facebook when I realized that I was not seeing all of the posts shared by the people I followed or "friended." I was seeing a lot of other stuff in random order.

I also got a real close look at how many of the people I actually knew IRL who had Nazi, fascist, or just plain idiotic political leaning.

The only thing that annoys me as a non-Facebook user is that FB Marketplace has pretty much destroyed the utility of craigslist.

Show threadDan HattonJan 31

@vfrmedia @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

One further level of abstraction: a lot of business owners want to close down their business and sell off the land on which it's situated for housing (frequently much more lucrative than running a business could ever be); but they can't get planning permission unless they can convince the local council that they've really tried to operate the business and it hasn't worked out: going bust within a few years is exactly their intended outcome.

Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@only_ohm @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

I think in many cases (particularly in my part of England) its landlords who would be doing this, hence renting out a location to a risky enterprise wihch is likely to fail? Or in other cases the business owners are old and going to retire anyway, so they don't have that much trouble showing the Council they *were* running the business.

OTOH I see the same thing happen in sectors like automotive where there is high demand and many businesses seem to be constantly busy (or at least give the impression of being so by being hard to contact by normal means, although this is often because they don't hire admin staff any more and the same mechanics doing the work have to field the customer communications)

Show threadDan HattonJan 31

@vfrmedia @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

Funnily enough, both the automotive repair businesses that existed in my youth in the village where I live have gone down the "shut down and sell off the land for housing" route - in at least one case, with the local council being decidedly displeased about it.

Show threadDan HattonJan 31

@vfrmedia @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

(and yes, both of those shops were always busy and in high demand)

Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKJan 31

@only_ohm @mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

A lot of automotive business owners end up burning out because their businesses are run so lean they don't have the money to invest in training or new equipment, and the "fun" jobs like performance, tuning and full restos of oldtimers you might see on YouTube are in reality rarer these days as many people with more cash get their cars on leases which forbid such mods, and the rest of the work is keeping peoples old sheds running which can often be thankless as few people are happy paying a garage bill..

Show threadMaria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️Jan 31
@only_ohm @vfrmedia @anon_opin @dbsalk It's worse in my area. They are closing up orchards and selling the land for data centers.
Show threadDan HattonJan 31

@mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk

A great approach until it's a company that has a monopoly on something essential. I moved house in 2022, and the water company in the area I moved away from would accept the notification that I was leaving *only* via WhatsApp,

Show threadgeekylouFeb 1
@mlanger @anon_opin @dbsalk This 100% I left Facebook years ago.