Paul_a_phillips
Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch) 
Hierarchy of Needs
Mistress Remilia@catsalad Well I have the bottom three covered (somehow)...
Tero Hänninen
Toughest Bastard on the Fedi
RootWyrm 🇺🇦
cuan_knaggs
David Palk#RejoinEU 💖🇪🇺🕊🌈@catsalad Mazlov would be impressed! 🤣
thedoctor@catsalad My two most basic needs are not met 😭
athena_rising@thedoctor @catsalad My lower three needs are being stomped on. Sigh. This explains a lot. 😳
equi@catsalad Confluence. You forgot about Confluence.
Ilkka Tengvall@catsalad I'd add there "not need to use customer service chatbots"
Mike@catsalad I've never used teams and have no idea what jira or salesforce are. Presumably, I should consider myself lucky?
Cameron@catsalad
SO true... 🤪🤣🧜♀️
SO true... 🤪🤣🧜♀️
Andrew@catsalad I am continually thankful that I rarely use Teams, Zoom or Meet. I never use Jira or Salesforce.
Beam me out!@catsalad Jira can be ok if it is kept simple and well organized. But I'd avoid the other two if possible.
@BeamMeOut Teams sucks the most, for sure.
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)I don't really understand the Teams hate. It's like most MS products: it basically works and has a pile of annoying bugs. Chat, video calls, and so on basically work, and it's the only video calling app I've used that's actually good at sharing presentations in a way that works with accessibility tools and even just with different resolutions (due to some tight coupling between Teams and PowerPoint that probably should be subject to some antitrust scrutiny). Most of the alternatives to Teams are bad in different ways, some are bad in the same ways. It's significantly less bad for video calling than Zoom.
Outlook is far worse than Teams in almost every way (for example: after 30 years of people reporting that it can't properly quote emails in replies, it still can't properly quote emails in replies). Word and Excel are worse in many ways.
JIRA, in contrast, is a UI that is entirely designed to torture users. Everything is at least five clicks more than it would be in a good UI flow.
@david_chisnall @catsalad Yes, Teams are great if you're fully in the MS ecosystem. Run Windows, use Office etc. Office people like it and often prefer to anything else (Zoom, Webex, Skype for Business etc.). If not, it's not that great.
@BeamMeOut @david_chisnall Quite a pain from Linux and macOS, for sure...
I've not tried it on non-Android Linux but the Android, iOS, and macOS clients are all much better than the Windows one.
The Windows one prior to New Teams would peg my CPU at 100% quite often. The Mac one never did (even on a Mac that was five years older than the Surface).
Aside from the stupid text input box (which is common to a lot of Electron apps), the Mac version is fine. Drag and drop works in a bunch of places where it doesn't work on Windows, for example.
jamesb2147@catsalad @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall I was going to ask whether live in the same reality.
I use a Mac. I use teams. I use teams on my Mac.
Does it occasionally have annoying bugs? Yes. Is it a bit slower than I'd like sometimes because it's fundamentally SharePoint on the backend? Hell yes.
... It's also got a handful of really great, really important features. Ever had someone remotely control your screen via Zoom? You end up fighting them over mouse control. Teams has a cursor for each user, and then you can take over the system cursor by clicking. I've never seen any system with a similar feature to date, and it's very useful when you need it.
I saw somebody else talking about SNow. The experience with that product entirely depends on how your company has configured it. I've had one time when it was a dream, and another where the administrator put wayyyyy too many controls in and made it painful to use (and worse to troubleshoot when you didn't have access to something you should have).
Lots of times products suck, and I have a particular hatred of Microsoft IM tools. However, Teams actually has something to contribute to the field of meeting tools, unlike every Microsoft client before it (Skype for business fucking suuuuuucked so so bad... Silent send failures are the worst).
If you want a Microsoft product to hate today, let's have a conversation about Azure... OMIGod (didn't even track which Azure VMs had this silently installed lol), logging is inconsistent even internally within an app, I've personally reported random missing events from a service going into an event hub and that took fucking 9 months to resolve, they YOLO changes into prod in gov cloud that breaks shit and takes 16 hours to fix, the 365 team doesn't play nicely with Azure in terms of logging so have fun pulling those events out and pricing when you're missing some (if you haven't noticed this, then aren't doing enough validation, because they're always missing some 365 events)... I have things to complain about. As a reasonably heavy teams user on Mac, though? Not a lot these days (I do understand "classic" teams on Mac May have had more issues a few years back).
Melvin Gundlach@jamesb2147 @catsalad @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall It’s really sluggish. For an app that I have to use quite often, that’s not acceptable. All the while it uses more RAM than my IDE. What the hell? It doesn’t even have any native third party frontends.
@melgu @catsalad @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall FWIW I've kept using Teams at work and learned a bit more.
Chat and meeting functionality I still hold is top tier, arguably market leading in functionality.
However, the Team functions are obviously written by a completely different team and are a total dumpster fire that makes them useless at best.
@jamesb2147 @catsalad @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall But even chat is awful. No thread support, broken message formatting, broken link-editing, broken file sharing permission system…
@melgu @catsalad @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall threads are a hack for having multiple conversations in one place. I really don't see the value add vs online quotes + starting a new chat. I guess it's maybe not zero value, but I can't think of a single time it would have helped at work. That's a much more forum oriented feature, and I make use of it in those settings, but nobody I know is trying to use Teams like a forum. For that specific use case, it is objectively terrible software. IDK who would choose to try to use it that way though.
The copy pasta formatting getting borked sometimes is annoying, but not a deal breaker for us as it only loses colors. Same with broken link editing (probably helps that I work in IT so folks know to deal with that) and permissions. On the permissions, that's actually only rarely been an issue for us at work and IDK if that's because of corporate settings/defaults, or just everyone knowing how to use the tool because it's what we use at work. I've def seen that being problematic at school, so something is different about my work experience there.
mikeTesteLinuxQlub@BeamMeOut @david_chisnall @catsalad Work great, really?! I'm force to use that junk at work and for many colleagues and me, it just do random crash, freeze, hug CPU, hug memory, don't change the status when you change it and annoy you even more on W11 with notification, so define "work great", because for me, it's the plague .
@mikeTesteLinuxQlub @david_chisnall @catsalad I have similar experience, but somehow there are many users who say it works perfectly. Not sure what makes the magic difference, maybe depends also on which policies are enforced. For instance I would randomly get logged out of Teams, even in the middle of the call. That was absolutely crazy.
@BeamMeOut @mikeTesteLinuxQlub @catsalad Over the past five years, I've used Signal, Jitsi Meet, Google Meet, Zoom, Cisco WebEx and MS Teams. If this set, the only one I've routinely had problems with is Zoom.
Google Meet went through a phase for much of the last month where it would fail with some unspecified permission error, but it worked again after a few refreshes (a few other people had the same error but there's no way to report it and it went away after a while), but until then it had worked reliably.
@david_chisnall @BeamMeOut @catsalad I think it's a symptom of our times, we are the alpha/beta debugger for those corporations......Want an useless functionality, here we go, but fixing bug, no, too hard for us. Exciting times, that I can tell you 😆
FoxVK@BeamMeOut @david_chisnall @catsalad
No ms teams is crap. Do you want to copy more than few messages - nope... Even IRC is better as chat...
No ms teams is crap. Do you want to copy more than few messages - nope... Even IRC is better as chat...
Mia ‘Meetings? I Abstain’ Luna Tearmoon@FoxVK @BeamMeOut @david_chisnall @catsalad the company that I work for is going to migrate from Sharepoint to Google Workspace, so Teams will be replaced by Meet, and I dread the day
because:
- Teams (if you are not using 3rd party conferencing hardware) has absolutely epic noise cancelling
- Teams has automated captioning and transcripts that work really well (sure, it's not ideal, but it's great), and for someone with broken hearing like me this is a godsend
- Teams video calling just works
- the company is going to stay on Windows anyway and we cannot really do our jobs if we don't run Windows (I'm in localisation)
P. S. IRC is not better as a chat replacement for Teams because, by design, it has no persistence, zero fault tolerance, and no history playback unless you stick znc somewhere (and let's not mention media content)
@mia @FoxVK @david_chisnall @catsalad I got chance of using corporate Google Suite and had no issues with Meet. It actually worked better than anything else across all platforms, Win, Linux or Mac. It works on Chromium and Firefox based browsers. The noise cancelling is decent too and transcription works well (in english at least, there are not that many supported languages). What might be pain is transition from Outlook to Gmail. The replies, filters are quite different.
@BeamMeOut hmm I had numerous issues with Meet on Firefox when we tested it
and it was noticeably worse compared to Teams when parsing speech, very likely because our team is 90% ESL people with lots of cases of extremely weird pronunciation ahaha
also, Google Sheets is kind of… noticeably inferior to Excel (and if you ever encountered localisation, you probably know that it's all Excel worksheets all the way down)
Nicolai Hähnle@david_chisnall @catsalad @BeamMeOut Add another point for that sentiment. I also use it on Linux (Chromium) and it works reasonably. I wonder if a lot of the Teams hate has to do with different cultures of how the tool is used.
Kind of like there is always one person on these threads saying that Jira is fine if set up properly.
@david_chisnall @catsalad @BeamMeOut And to be fair, we have multiple Jira projects (or whatever the term is) set up where I work, and some of them are more obnoxious than others.
The one thing they all have in common, and why I hate it unconditionally, it's that it's soooo slow.
Web apps are a blight on those of us who know that computers can actually be fast.
@nh @david_chisnall @catsalad If you have server Jira than it might be slow and depending on the version also very bad. Jira Cloud version improved in many aspects, but has less features. Companies often stuff Jira with tons of add-ons and scripts and it becomes sluggish.
@nh @david_chisnall @catsalad @BeamMeOut I actually wonder if some of it is other tools mucking about with the client software.
E g. DLP software often eats my CPU while OneDrive does some sync on my Mac. Super annoying and I'd blame OneDrive if I didn't know any better.
Would at least help explain the starkly different experiences people have with Teams.
Speaktrap@david_chisnall @catsalad @BeamMeOut I work in IT support.
Teams is fucking worst.
TSRBerry@catsalad Jira > Azure DevOps
Anne-Martine🍋🍋🟩🟥@catsalad I'm fully aware that I might have Stockholm syndrome, but isn't the biggest issue with any of these basic needs that people just use them without agreeing on how to use them? Like traffic might have been at first, before we set out ground rules? Or am I now stirring an avalanche of replies that the systems need to be so good that 'they just work'? Because that also is the way some people like to have their work organised (or 'intuitively searchable')?
coja
Magnus Ahltorp@annemartine @catsalad Traffic was better when we didn’t have the ground rule that it’s okay to hit a pedestrian just because they walk in the street. The same is true for issue tracking.
Simon Brooke@catsalad no one needs money.
@simon_brooke Small price to pay for not having to use MS Teams.
François @Jura@catsalad You know you are priviledged when you do not need to list Excel VBA
Cody Boone Ferguson@catsalad I have a shirt of the usual needs but the bottom says Internet. Which I agree with.
I am not a fan of teams either though. Just for one friend. It's worse than Skype. By a lot.
Enalys 
@catsalad
Not having to use computer for non fun things.
Not having to use computer for non fun things.
Blink With A Kink
Mark Lynch@catsalad I’d put “not having to use salesforce” in the basic needs category tbh. Easily the worst excuse for a web-based case management system it has ever been my misfortune to have to use in 25+ years in the industry
Charlie Phillips/Dolphinchaz@catsalad Swap Jira for Asana and it's pretty much 100% for me 😂😂😂
stefanct@catsalad teams in a browser is bearable. at least compared to pretty much everything else from m$. i personally would have replaced the bottom tiers with "windows", "anything from faamg", "proprietary software".
Marc@catsalad not having to use LLMs is missing.
grouchox
David Penfold 
@catsalad Probably needs updating with avoiding AI at the bottom.
stephen ryner jr. 🦉