Mastodawn

Mozilla's CEO doubles down on them being an advertising company now.

tl;dr: "LOL get fucked"

They've decided who their customers are, and it's not you, it's people who build and invest in surveillance advertising networks. But in a "respectful" way....
https://jwz.org/b/ykaO

Mozilla's CEO doubles down on them being an advertising company now

tl;dr: "LOL get fucked" They've decided who their customers are, and it's not you, it's people who build and invest in surveillance advertising networks. But in a "respectful" way. "Improving online advertising through product and infrastructure." We know that not everyone in our community will embrace our entrance into this market. Gee, ya think? In parallel to our existing consumer ...

breath in bass Oct 4, 2024

@jwz I fully agree with your stated opinion about what Mozilla should be doing: building a browser (without AI / adtech / crypto / privacy threatening crap) and advocating for / defending web standards.

We *need* that. Mozilla is uniquely positioned to deliver that.

Fabrice Desré Oct 4, 2024

@dbs @jwz No Mozilla is not positioned for that, since they show no interest doing so.

Hard fork time? (Or everyone jumping ship to one of the existing forks time?)

J.elgato Oct 4, 2024

@beeoproblem @jwz

I think the official course of action is that we are all supposed to get together and sing "Where Do We Go From Here?" From the 7th Season musical episode "Once More With Feeling" of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer...

Daarin Oct 6, 2024

@jelgato @beeoproblem @jwz You mean we should "walk alone in fear"?

parenTessaLation Oct 4, 2024

@beeoproblem @jwz LibreWolf has been treating me pretty well.

@jakimfett @jwz I've seen that name pop up a few times. I'll put it on the list of things to try.

Health Is Wealth Oct 5, 2024

@beeoproblem @jakimfett @jwz Well worth it! It blocks Java script by default (you'd think the internet only ran on Java script it blocks that much) but its only two click to enable it on a visited site should you need it. I can't remember if it comes with Privacy Badger or if I installed that separately but that's is also worth an install. I'm not too up on the 'browser wars' that seem to have always existed & updates for LibreWolf may one day stop but for now, its the best option I have found.

PG&E Delenda Est Oct 4, 2024

@jwz EFF should run mozilla imho

Lance Bachmeier Oct 4, 2024

@jwz The Mozilla that has a Threads account that they've chosen not to federate? The Mozilla that introduced their CEO by linking to her LinkedIn profile? I'm shocked.

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands ☣Oct 4, 2024

@jwz I keep seeing people talk about this, but like... what options are there other than Firefox and Chrome these days? Everything else is like based on one of the two, right? Safari didn't use to be, but I thought I saw someone saying it's Chrome based now.

kerplunk Oct 4, 2024

@deathkitten @jwz Fortunately, Safari is not based on Chrome/Chromium. Of course, that's no help if someone doesn't use Mac/iPhone/iPad 🙁

source: https://stackshare.io/stackups/chromium-vs-safari

Chromium vs Safari | What are the differences?

Chromium - Google's open-source web browser project. Safari - A graphical web browser .

StackShare

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands ☣Oct 4, 2024

@kerplunk @jwz Good to know. Thank you! I wonder where my incorrect information came from then. >.<

Devourer Oct 5, 2024

@kerplunk @deathkitten @jwz

Fun fact, Webkit IS available on Windows, officially! Anyone can compile it and a few of Apple's windows programs run on top of WebKit
It even runs on Linux! GNOME browser is WebKit based

Jakob Oct 4, 2024

@deathkitten @jwz afaik safari is still its own thing, using WebKit

IrishMASMS Oct 4, 2024

@deathkitten @jwz

I've been migrating to @Vivaldi and to #librewolf

https://librewolf.net/

#vivaldibrowser is a great, polished & defanged chromium based browser

Same for librewolf.

Both can leverage my fave add-ons

Give them a try

LibreWolf Browser

A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom.

parenTessaLation Oct 4, 2024

@deathkitten LibreWolf strips out all the encrapification that Mozilla has added recently, if you want to give a similar-but-less-shitty option a try.

Brent Guernsey, Artrocity Studio Oct 4, 2024

I've used Firefox for years. This is so disappointing.

What are the best alternatives?

Austin Willis Oct 4, 2024

@Brentguernsey @jwz I like Floorp. It’s a fork of Firefox

Hugo Oct 4, 2024

@Brentguernsey @jwz i use librewolf, “a custom version of firefox”

aspragg Oct 4, 2024

@Brentguernsey @jwz

There’s #epiphany (aka Gnome Web) which works fine on 99% of the sites I use

Taffer 🇨🇦

@Brentguernsey @jwz I'm leery of Firefox forks; they seem to get behind on merging updates, and I worry about them just fizzling out. Browsers are stupidly complex and require a lot of effort.

Vivaldi might be the least-bad Chrome browser, but none of the Chrome browsers ever "feels" right, and I can't figure out what about the UI bugs me.

Hopefully Servo gets viable soon?

#mozilla #firefox #vivaldi #servo

slyborg Oct 4, 2024

@jwz >be Mozilla
>have virtually no market share in anything
>conclude the free cash from Google may soon dry up and blow away, threatening Mitchell Baker’s yacht upgrade
>immediately alienate basically your entire puny userbase and pivot to competing with … Google

I can’t even imagine what the thought process was here. Why not crypto? That grift actually seems to work…

Teixi Oct 4, 2024

WTF?!!!

What happened in recent years for Mozilla case of possibly being leaded by even much worse managers than Steve Case?

cc @hipsterelectron

14mission Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Does Mozilla technically own Firefox? There's nothing to stop another group from taking over maintenance, or us users from switching where we get it, right?

@14mission @jwz maybe tor project or even librewilf can do that, in worst case, can be illegak to install from outside of firefox repos, but who cares....

Job Bautista Oct 4, 2024

@14mission Mozilla only fully owns the Firefox trademarks (name, branding, etc). The source code is fair game as long as the MPL is followed to the letter.

@jwz

xs4me2 Oct 4, 2024

The guy needs to go…

Alan Campbell Oct 4, 2024

@jwz well now this sound a bit fucked up. I'm looking at this on Safari/MBP, I only occasionally run Firefox on the PC. Mostly use Firefox at work so not so bothered there. Still I've using Firefox as an alternative to Chrome or Edge but now the alternative itself is messed up?

IrishMASMS Oct 4, 2024

@alanthecampbell @jwz see https://defcon.social/@Irishmasms/113250512537881371

IrishMASMS (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] I've been migrating to @[email protected] and to #librewolf https://librewolf.net/ #vivaldibrowser is a great, polished & defanged chromium based browser Same for librewolf. Both can leverage my fave add-ons Give them a try

DEF CON Social

Immer die Radfahrer Oct 4, 2024

> Now hear me out, but What If...? browser development was in the hands of some kind of nonprofit organization?

I don't know about nonprofit, but what about @zenbrowser ?

Zen Oct 4, 2024

@i_d_radfahrer @jwz right now, there is no organisation structure here, just one main dev (Mauro), and a bunch of volunteers ;)

David Somers Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Mozilla got distracted with lots of side-projects, and have squandered the funding they have received over the years. Is anybody really surprised they have now embraced enshittification to the next level by actively getting into bed with advertising?

Perhaps we need to rethink the browser. I just want something to safely fetch and display html. No more. No less. Do I really have to go back to dropping into the cli to use Lynx?

rockpick Oct 4, 2024

@jwz the thing is. It is still the right choice to oppose the Chromium market dominance. Just now it's not with vanilla firefox anymore. Librewolf ftw!

Morten Juhl-Johansen Oct 4, 2024

@jwz It is a frustrating affair.
I have been thinking a lot about how Thunderbird is reconquering mind- and marketshare with the desktop version and the K-9 Mail-based Thunderbird for Android.
I can hope it will not be polluted with AI, but that seems unlikely in the long run.

jwz Oct 4, 2024

@mjj I don't know anything about what's going on technically with Thunderbird these days, but for years they've been playing word-games where they pretend to be a "Mozilla" project when it suits them and utterly independent when the press is going the other way.

"We're a part of Mozilla, not Mozilla or Mozilla or Mozilla" is a thing that they say and it does not inspire confidence, because either it's intentionally deceptive or it's just comically bad messaging, and neither are great.

Glitch (over count 1999)Oct 4, 2024

@jwz @mjj as far as I understand it, Thunderbird just is completely deprioritized after 2020 (minus them buying out K-9 Mail to turn it into Thunderbird for Android), with Mozilla basically trying to handle it like the Apache Foundation, where they're "just the stewards", which is just code language for "we can't be arsed to keep developing it".

Morten Juhl-Johansen Oct 4, 2024

@glitch @jwz It was like that until recently. The Thunderbird 115 Supernova release was quite a change - a year ago, I think? That is when I started using it again.

Ryan Lee Sipes ⚡🦅Oct 5, 2024

@jwz @mjj Thunderbird has a community Council that approves the budget and product roadmap. The entity that manages the money, hiring, etc - is distinct. Not MoCo or the Foundation. Because of that we are Mozilla, but we don't follow any marching orders besides those that are set in concert with the community.

It is not disingenuous to call out that we have a different way of doing things. Part of the Mozilla family, but different in some key ways.

That is the truth.

enmodo ⚛️ 🧬 🇺🇦 🍉Oct 4, 2024

@jwz
If they wanted to do advertising they should just figure out what Brave did with privacy preserving client side ads - as a plug-in - but without the crypto. But of course the ad industry doesn't want that because if your browser isn't stealing your data then they want to. Why? Because they are ignorant monkeys who don't know any better [HHGTTG quote].

moooping Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Oh dear. Can anyone recommend an alternative browser? Thank you!

jwz Oct 4, 2024

@moooping No, no one can. Things were allowed to get so bad that you're just completely screwed.

moooping Oct 4, 2024

@jwz I feared this might be the case.

Nemo Thorx Oct 4, 2024

@moooping @jwz Firefox is the worst mainstream browser. Except for all the other ones that are available.

Afaik, at the moment any fork of Firefox still relies on Firefox to do the core developing and they just polish the edges to suit whatever niche they're catering for.

I suspect the interest in a hard/community fork of Firefox is growing, but probably impossible to predict when (or even if) it will pass critical mass threshold and actually happen in any usefully self sustaining way.

moooping Oct 5, 2024

@nemothorx @jwz sounds like the next level of enshittificatiom: once products get worse, the market slowly adapts such that the best products get worse in line with market as it’s only the relative quality that matters. Until a disrupter comes along again. It strikes me that we’ve been waiting too long.

Kai Klostermann Oct 4, 2024

@moooping @jwz Only hope is @servo.

moooping Oct 5, 2024

@OddDev @jwz @servo thank you! I will take a look.

Dušan Mitrović Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Build a browser with what money? Donations alone cannot finance a project like Firefox.

Pete / Syllopsium Oct 4, 2024

@dusnm @jwz Don't see why not, you just need a *lot* of donations.

Do you mean, like some other open projects, it needs to be funded by someone with lots of money because almost all the general populace and a not inconsiderable number of open source enthusiasts see 'free as in beer', not 'open source code'.

Andrew Dalke Oct 4, 2024

My hope is that various governments fund a digital sovereignty browser project.

FOSS, with reproducible builds, and easy to rebuild.

Designed so citizens are not required to sign a user agreement or otherwise reduce personal privacy.

Companies providing services in those countries must ensure compatibility, on the highest privacy levels (eg, don't silently break if location is disabled.)

As long as I'm dreaming, and with long-term support for old hardware, to reduce e-waste.

Luka Rubinjoni Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Goatse lives!

Andreas K Oct 4, 2024

@jwz And that solves the Encrypted Media Extensions issue how?

https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/posts/the-end-of-indie-web-browsers/

Building a better web browser (engine)? Hard but doable.

Building a web browser that is competitive in the mainstream (aka can play netflix & co), dream on.

The End of Indie Web Browsers: You Can (Not) Compete

In 2017, the body responsible for standardizing web browser technologies, W3C, introduced Encrypted Media Extensions (EME)—thus bringing with it the end of competitive indie web browsers. No longer is it possible to build your own web browser capable of consuming some of the most popular content on the web. Websites like Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and others require copyright content protection which is only accessible through browser vendors who have license agreements with large corporations.

jwz Oct 4, 2024

@yacc143 Try to imagine how many shits I give as to whether my web browser can play Netflix. Try.

Andreas K Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Try how you'll gain a mainstream critical mass (so that websites simply don't lock you out, as happens occasionally with Firefox already), with a browser that does not have the relevant EME CDM modules.

Oops, so yes, you and me care about watching netflix on our laptops not very much, 🤷 About 99% of the websites do not care very much about you and me.

(OTOH, what happens when you cannot watch videos for your uni classes, because of that? Right, Manifest V3 Chrome it is for the moment.)

jwz Oct 4, 2024

@yacc143 Also try to imagine how much I care about the angry opinions of strangers. *plonk*

yaoi gagarin Oct 4, 2024

@jwz not content with continuing to put merely their foot in, Mozilla proceed to try and demonstrate they can in fact horf down their entire leg

CyberFrog Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Mozilla: The Advertising Company

kbal Oct 4, 2024

Servo taking over seems a long way off, but still somehow closer to reality than Mozilla getting its act together.

Bill Seitz Oct 4, 2024

@jwz "Anonym is building technology that can provide more privacy-preserving infrastructure for data sharing between advertisers and publishers."
War is Peace

Carlos Solís Oct 4, 2024

@jwz Sigh... who the heck designed that Mozilla Goatse? (Moatze?)