ZenythDec 10, 2023
neatchee

EDIT: See important context from visually impaired users in the replies!

Friendly reminder to help our visually impaired community: avoid hashtags in the middle of your posts

Many people use screen-readers. It can be annoyingly difficult to parse things like "I went to the hashtag store to buy some hashtag bread but I got hashtag screwed when the last loaf was hashtag sole doubt ha ha ha ha"

Please remember to put your hashtags at the end, and make sure to capitalize within the hashtag where appropriate!

#inclusion #disability #ScreenReader #blind #VisuallyImpaired #ettiquette #support #PSA

Dec 10, 2023 at 8:24pmWeb
Show threadGen X-WingDec 10, 2023
@neatchee Not an argument against, but it makes me wonder if apps can hook into screen readers and modify text before it’s sent over. Never written any code like that.
Show threadTyler SmithDec 10, 2023

@neatchee

I will try to remember this, thanks.

It makes me wonder, are screen readers configurable/customizable to any extent? I imagine there must be a lot of things you encounter on the web that you wouldn't want read out phonetically all the time.

Show threadneatcheeDec 10, 2023
@plantarum I'm not visually impaired myself but I think it's a "do your best"kind of thing; they try to cover as many scenarios as possible, but people don't do a very good job designing apps, services, and sites in a way that is friendly to them
Show threadG-NitroDec 10, 2023
@neatchee Aw #shit
Show threadSamuel ProulxDec 10, 2023
@neatchee As a blind person myself, using voiceover on IOS, I actually do put hashtags in the middle of my post. Often I write a lot, and I don’t have the character count left to hashtag at the end. Also, this problem is one that can be solved with screen reader settings. In general, I have voiceover set to ignore the hash symbol. So posts just read like that symbol doesn’t exist. When I am specifically interested in hashtags, I change the setting to hear the symbol again. Honestly I kind of thought everyone does this? I’m more concerned that people post alt-text. What do other #blind folks think? #a11y #accessible #accessibility #screenreader #nvdasr
Show threadM. J. Page-LiebermanDec 10, 2023
@fastfinge This is reassuring to hear. I place hashtags only embedded in the main text and am averse to them all at the end, as people will just overpopulate them there bundled in singular and plural forms and with any conceivable tangential terms, as far as I can tell, out of doing SEO hacking of social media, and it pollutes the hashtag namespaces and makes them largely unhelpful, in my opinion. @neatchee
Show threadSamuel ProulxDec 10, 2023
@jotaemei @neatchee Also hashtags are just unhelpful for folks on smaller servers. Hashtags don’t actually do what most people think they do. For actual discussion, you need to use a groups service like a.gup.pe or a federated discussion platform like Lemmy or Kbin.
Show threadneatcheeDec 10, 2023
@fastfinge @jotaemei Very useful information in this thread. I'm interested to hear more from other impacted users. Some of it runs counter to what I've been told by other visually impaired users; they have said screen reader software is cumbersome to make do what they want
Show threadChozoDec 10, 2023
@fastfinge @jotaemei @neatchee Could you elaborate on the misconceptions on hashtags?
Show threadSamuel ProulxDec 11, 2023
@Chozo @jotaemei @neatchee So if you’re on a small server, the only things that show up on a hashtag are: posts made by people on the same instance as you, and everyone those people follow. So just because you’re following or searching on a hashtag, you might not be seeing every single post on that hashtag ever made on Mastodon. Whereas if you use a.gup.pe, it offers a bot that boosts all posts that ever mention it. So you know you’re always seeing all the posts, no matter what. If you use hashtags for discussions, poles, etc, you need to know that you might not be reaching the entire fediverse. Also, if you read a hashtag, you might not be seeing all posts to that hashtag. Actually, #blind is a good example of this. Most blind people tend to be on tweesecake.social and dragonscave.space, with a few of us spread out through the rest of the verse. But those two servers are going to have the best coverage of #blind.
Show threadChozoDec 11, 2023

@fastfinge @jotaemei @neatchee

So if you’re on a small server, the only things that show up on a hashtag are: posts made by people on the same instance as you, and everyone those people follow.Is this just when you choose to "follow" a hashtag? I use Firefish, and (unless it's actually there and I just can't find it) there isn't an option to follow hashtags on here. But if I click on a hashtag, I can see other posts with that tag from other servers. For instance, if I view #blind on my Firefish instance, I see several of your posts.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I jumped straight into Firefish without ever really using normal Mastodon, so I'm not sure if this is just a feature discrepancy between Mastodon and its forked platforms, or something else I'm missing.

Show threadSamuel ProulxDec 11, 2023
@Chozo @jotaemei @neatchee I’m not sure how firefish works. But in the case of Mastodon, it would mean that someone on your server follows me, at least when you click to search for a hashtag. I’m not sure if firefish works differently.
Show threadChozoDec 11, 2023
@fastfinge @jotaemei @neatchee Interesting, thanks for sharing that! I'm still trying to learn all the quirks of Fediverse platforms lol
Show threadD.Hamlin.MusicDec 10, 2023
@fastfinge @neatchee Yep anywhere is fine so long as they are not front loaded, if people do that I will not even bother reading the post.
Show threadNow -> [email protected]Dec 11, 2023

@fastfinge @neatchee

I'm the same: I use hashtags in the middle of a post if it makes conversational sense because I will usually run out of characters otherwise, and if I'm using hashtags at all, it's probably important.

And yes, for me, alt-text is much more important. I can deal with hashtags wherever they are, but without alt-text, images with any even medium text or fine detail are useless to me

Show threadSy HoekstraDec 11, 2023
@Her_Doing @fastfinge @neatchee I agree, I am fine with #s in the middle. The only thing I truly can’t stand is when there are a bunch of hashtags at the beginning that I have to listen to before hearing the actual post
Show threadNow -> [email protected]Dec 11, 2023

@SyHoekstra @fastfinge @neatchee

Oh, my goodness, that just makes no sense at all!

Even visually it would be too much clutter, and I would skip the post rather than try to read all that.

Show threadSy HoekstraDec 11, 2023
@Her_Doing @fastfinge @neatchee Yeah, I usually do end up skipping them
Show threadTyler SmithDec 10, 2023
@neatchee the only reply I can see is mine, are there others?
Show threadneatcheeDec 10, 2023
@plantarum yes. But they may not all be federated to your server. To see everything, navigate to the original post on my server
Show threadAhimsaDec 10, 2023

@neatchee
I'm a sighted person. I have a hard time reading posts that have many hashtags sprinkled throughout the text. I know it saves characters but I'd rather have them all at the end.

I thought maybe it was just me! Then someone else commented on this when I was talking about hashtags, see link: https://c.im/@hippyjo/111291273701152264

I know there are many opinions on how to use hashtags, and I'm not saying any one way is right, but putting them at the end isn't just for folks using screen readers.

Jayme (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] As an old guy with over twenty years in the accessibility game, a master's degree in instructional design, and a life long aficionado of reading, writing, and all things creative, I offer this opinion: You are doing everything correctly, and I approve completely. Even without a screenreader, the hashtags break the flow, and render the entire paragraph more difficult to process. Natural text has a flowing element to it, and the hashtags are little anchors breaking the flow. Ask any typographer about text flow of different font faces and get ready for a long discourse. These things are known... In addition, taking the time and space to list hashtags as a closing block provides an opportunity to reflect on what you are trying to communicate. Always a good thing to have thoughtful posts instead of adding more brainless garbage to the web. So there you have it, in my admittedly over educated and incredibly biased opinion... #a11y #Accessibility #ScreenReaders #Blind #Hashtags #typography #etiquette

C.IM