Mastodawn

bibli0phage Aug 11, 2023

I can understand why some men got so angry at the Barbie movie, she undermines their whole worldview when she tells Ken “you are not the car that you drive, you are not the contents of your wallet” nope, that was Tyler Durden in Fight Club. No she says “you are not your girlfriend, you are not your house”. Both movies have the same message about toxic masculinity

Bethany Black Aug 11, 2023

Most people who love that feminist classic Fight Club seem to have forgotten the second hour of the film, where all the lost men replace their life as a mindless automaton in a system designed to repress them, with life as a mindless automaton in a system designed to repress them by a charismatic leader, where the main character literally has to kill the toxic man that he has become.
Both Fight Club and Barbie make the point that patriarchy is terrible for men.

Zeb Larson Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack I saw that movie when I was 11 and what immediately stuck with me was that Edward Norton's character was perfectly happy and functional going to a support group to just cry. It's everything that comes after that that makes him go off the rails.

I don't think many of my compatriots took that message, however.

Ambigram Art Aug 11, 2023

He wasn't perfectly happy. Tyler was also at the support groups.

Madopal Aug 11, 2023

@Ambigramart @Zeb_Larson No, Tyler only showed up when Norton could no longer cry. Then his insomnia came back & Tyler showed up.

Ambigram Art Aug 11, 2023

@madopal @Zeb_Larson

I think the problem was Marla. Although Tyler Durden appears six times before he and Norton's character officially meet.

Madopal Aug 14, 2023

@Ambigramart @Zeb_Larson Correct. Marla's appearance correlates directly, it exposes Norton's hypocrisy in going to support groups he's faking about. But the original point is still valid:
When Norton could cry it out, he was fine.

Profezzor_von_Zod Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack People are dumb. To this day, there are people that read "You should join the military!" out of Starship Troopers. Which is, like, the complete opposite take.

Bethany Black Aug 11, 2023

@ProfezzorDarke yep, oppositional decoding is a well known phenomena in all media

Marta Threadbare Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack @ProfezzorDarke Starship Troopers is really weird to misinterpret. The last minutes are basically the director yelling at the audience "these weren't even real events in the universe of the movie, just a shitty propaganda film for recruiting more cannon fodder".

Profezzor_von_Zod Aug 11, 2023

@cygnathreadbare @BethanyBlack See, this is why text interpretation is so important in school...

LisPi Aug 12, 2023

@ProfezzorDarke @BethanyBlack The book was a very weird read.

I read it around the same time I read 1984 & Brave New World and it seemed to me to be an exhibit of a similarly profoundly flawed society.

Never saw the movies for any of those.

TransitBiker Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack but if I have a nice car & money, girls will like me!

Nate Gaylinn Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack I think some dudes were distracted by the punching and the blowing stuff up.

Robots can be gay deal with it Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack Yep, it's why we live shorter lives.

I thought this was the basis of MRA, that patriarchal and toxic systems hurt men. Kinda backdooring men in that mindset into feminism, by showing them the part hurting them.

But then I was set straight, shown not to make assumptions.

But what if we did that thing I thought it was at first yeah?

MC Lowkey Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack I legit read "Breakfast Club" initially, and I was really confused by your post, haha! Coffee helped 😋

Billy Smith Aug 11, 2023

After watching Fight Club for the first time, i watched it again to try to find all of the easter eggs that Durden had placed in the film. :D

After going through it five times, i realised that it was an excel;lent film about demonic possession by a demon who really understood the modern world.

The Exorcist showed a demon that possessed one person, but Fight Club showed a demon who changed the conditions of the society, so that more potential hosts would become available. :D

Justin Buist Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack Yep. There's a reason I'm never working in a team without women again.

RealGravitas -Citizen Saboteur Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack I thought we weren’t supposed to talk about that thing we aren’t supposed to talk about.

dragonfrog Aug 11, 2023

I've heard this about fight club, and I'm quite happy to continue giving it a miss. Don't need to fill my head with visions of violence for days. For the same message Barbie was a delight to watch, and just left me with visions of well choreographed musical numbers.

Erik Uden 🚩Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack the people in fight club fought against the oppressive system, though.

Sure their own system was repressive, but it wasn't meaningless - the movie ended with hundreds of millions of people being freed from the repression that was loans, which was achieved by blowing up all banking institutions in the country. They achieved this without hurting anyone and by convincing each link in the chain merely through word of mouth completely peacefully.

Jeff Craig Aug 12, 2023

@BethanyBlack Fight Club is pretty strong proof that poor media literacy extends to all forms of Media, and you just can't count of people understanding anything no matter how obvious the message is.

Doc Chaotic 🇺🇦🖖Aug 12, 2023

@BethanyBlack Who knew the Barbie Movie would have a parallel with Fight Club? That makes me happy for some reason.

Leon Bambrick Aug 12, 2023

@BethanyBlack spot on!

There’s definitely a kind of Poe’s Law with Fight Club where people will get exactly the wrong message from it if it suits them.

Another Angry Woman Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack genuine 10/10 take, it is as correct as it is going to *incense* the people who deserve to be incensed by it

Bethany Black Aug 11, 2023

@stavvers been thinking about it a lot and there are so many parallels, Project Mayhem is pretty much the same as the Barbies’ plan. I’m prepared to say if you liked Fight Club and didn’t like Barbie then you didn’t understand Fight Club

Molly B Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack @stavvers I would really like to see those as a double feature. Barbie Fight Club! 100% serious.

Mint Spies has gone Beige Aug 11, 2023

@mjibrower @BethanyBlack @stavvers Except no one would ever be able to tell anyone about it...

@BethanyBlack
I know far too many men that unironically idolize Tyler and completely missed the point of that movie.
@stavvers

The Essence of Woerm Sin Aug 11, 2023

@GrayGooGirl @BethanyBlack @stavvers A Tyler Durden pfp is a red flag that can be seen from space.

Link feet pic enjoyer Aug 11, 2023

@GrayGooGirl @BethanyBlack @stavvers right wingers media literacy competency challenge (impossible)

AlexanderMars Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack @stavvers you’ve convinced me to that I must check out the barbie movie, which I was planning to ignore because something something capitalism.

Bethany Black Aug 11, 2023

@AlexanderMars the reason you were going to avoid it is a big thing they address in the movie

AlexanderMars Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack okay now I’m really curious, I guess it’s going to be interesting at what level my friends comprehend the subtext. The comparison to fight club hits very close to home, I have too many friends who took up MMA after watching it, and that’s not remotely what that movie/book was about. Don’t get me started on that one friend who still wants to start a soap company, I don’t have the bandwidth to unpack that.

Nicky🦨✌️Aug 11, 2023

@AlexanderMars @BethanyBlack dude…yup

AlexanderMars Jun 22, 2024

@BethanyBlack sorry for this ridiculous deep cut reply, but I finally got to watch the Barbie movie(my daughter gives zero fucks about anything that’s not dinosaur related) and wanted to say I’m so glad for your recommendation to watch. A far better film than than what you’d expect Hollywood to deliver, particularly about a doll.

Marlene DeepDish, VSOP Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack Fight Club is my second favorite movie ever. Now I’m even more stoked to see Barbie.

Apprentice Bodega Cat 🐈‍⬛Aug 11, 2023

@LalaKron @BethanyBlack Barbie: Fight Club for Girls

Nothing against "Barbenheimer", but I would love to see this become the takeaway. 😸

Ian Tindale Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack @stavvers I haven’t seen Barbie yet but I know I’ll love it – if it has messages like “Blerks, you’re not your sporting achievements, you are not your educational accomplishments, and most of all – you are not what you fucking know, so stop trying to shoehorn what you know into the surrounding world thinking it’ll validate your and everyone will worship you”

…Ahem
We were talking about technology weren’t we? I’ve lost track

Fade Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack @stavvers I still think about my friend in college who quite sincerely explained to me that the message of Fight Club was that men really did need to go punch each other a lot to get back in touch with their natural masculine urges, and also maybe do some terrorism.

Rob Landley Aug 12, 2023

@fade @BethanyBlack @stavvers I saw about 3/4 of it and could never figure out why the camera was following any of these people.

Then again I usually feel the same way about football...

TransitBiker Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack wait, im not my bicycle?! 😲

Christian Lynbech Aug 11, 2023

@TransitBiker @BethanyBlack Now, that is indeed the question 😊

(I apologize for the mess of commercials in the linked page, it was the reference I could quickly find.)

https://www.bedtimeshortstories.com/zen-master-asks-why-ride-the-bicycle

Zen Master Asks “Why Ride The Bicycle?” - Bedtimeshortstories

This is one of the inspirational stories for teens which has been adapted from a Zen story. Once upon a time, a Zen master saw five of his students...

Bedtimeshortstories

Made in DNA Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack
Friend described it as a dytopian flick. He loved it. I may have to, too after reading your post. Thanks!

Bethany Black Aug 11, 2023

@DNA It’s stayed with me since I watched it, and it is probably one of my top five films of all time

Made in DNA Aug 12, 2023

@BethanyBlack wild!

Khannea Aug 11, 2023

OtownKim Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack They are angry because 🥕 not 🍆.

@BethanyBlack b-but muh sigma male movie 😢😢😢

Ambigram Art Aug 11, 2023

I know this is off-topic but I believe Ferris in Ferris Bueller's Day Off is Cameron's Tyler Durdon.
Cameron has invented Ferris to cope with life. Ferris isn't real.

#FerrisBuellersDayOff #saveFerris

eyajpng Aug 12, 2023

@Ambigramart @dtauvdiodr @BethanyBlack The flip side of this is that Fight Club really could have used a Principal Rooney-type character

craquemattic 🏳️‍🌈Aug 12, 2023

@jepyang @Ambigramart @BethanyBlack That would have been the 👩‍🍳 💋

Toadman628 Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack The issue that the movie brought out the values between the sexes. Rather than state the obvious of Mattel selling a doll that in itself showed how females were programmed in life to have material status that evolved to changing roles that at the time little girls only could dream of doing. Toxic males felt threatened then as they showed now.

Ivey Janette McClelland Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack They wouldn't be complaining if Hasbro made a live-action GI Joe movie.

Demon Queen Lucretia Aug 11, 2023

@IveyJanette there are already 3 GI Joe live action movies. I'm not under the impression they're very good.

Ivey Janette McClelland Aug 12, 2023

@rezzyreksya Some studio will inevitably try to make a big-budget one. And it won't even come close to the Barbie movie in success.

your_huckleberry Aug 11, 2023

While I think the movie is fine, I don't like the misrepresentation of the complaints. The problem is an oversimplification of the end.
(Spoiler)
Barbieland is a single gender dominated society. Ken rebels against that and Barbie restores order, all is well. The message is, "Society dominated by men is bad, society dominated by women is good." That's not at all what the movie is trying to say, but if you're going in ready to find a fault it's real easy to paint a picture.

Stuck Here Aug 11, 2023

I've yet to see the Barbie movie but I'm looking forward to it. As to Fight Club, the movie is also about the lies we tell ourselves to live in a hustle culture. How we give up our safety in seeking profit. There's a power structure that if we want to see our humanity restored must be demolished.

Your comment is spot on.

@BethanyBlack I thought the same thing! Barbie had many of the same messages on toxic masculinity, but much less subtle. So that could be why some men hate it.

Alberto Cottica Aug 11, 2023

@BethanyBlack interesting connection you make there. I read Fight Club as anticapitalistic rather than antipatriarchal, but will readily admit to not being much of a media critic.

Win 🌱Aug 11, 2023

@alberto_cottica @BethanyBlack I can see both aspects in Fight Club but can't get my head around any anticapitalist stance in Barbie which is why I haven't seen it.