Mastodawn

KroganCharr Jul 16, 2023

It's complicated.

Simplified, I'd say you should completely ignore skin color in the way you treat others, but still be able to recognize when they are treated differently because of skin color.

Everyone being completely "color-blind" may be an ultimate goal, but that only works in conjunction with the complete elimination of racism, which we're still far away from.

Chloe Tse

Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon it's one of the most white privileged thing to say. I go on a rant when someone says that like it's so noble of them. It also makes the conversation about themselves. This image sums up my problem with it.

Queen of Anxiety Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon In the US, we’re swimming in a sea of institutionalized racism. White people aren’t meant to have to do anything in order to continue to maintain what is drowning others. So if you don’t see color, it’s probably because you’re surrounded only by white people and the occasional token minority from a similar socioeconomic background because of the segregation maintained by our institutions. Once you see color, you are at risk for seeing the truth.

Player2alpha 🧑‍💻🧌Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon This is one for the "All Lives Matters" crowd

Chris H #ChoirsForClimate Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon "I don't see color" is very seldom followed by any awareness that *other* people might see it and discriminate based on it. It tends to come with an incorrect assumption that nobody they're talking to could possibly ever have faced any discrimination, and therefore any differences in qualifications, living conditions, traumatic experiences etc. are the person's own fault and completely unrelated to their skin.

happyday Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I am an older white woman. I do see color. But the color I see is interestingly different. On one hand, I see many wonderful Indian and Chinese families and their beautiful children have moved into our neightborhood (we are near a Google campus). But I don't see people of Black color in our neighborhood and it makes me sad. Do I see color? Yah. In the faces of a young Black man when I say hello and he looks really confused and surprised.

happyday Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Here is something I don't understand. The world is full of color. Beautiful flowers of all colors. Do we want them of one color? NO. EVERYTHING is more beautiful in color. EVERYTHING is more beautiful when we come from a place of love. I don't know what else to say.

JJ Krawczyk Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon
It's a lie. Everyone who can see color sees “color”. Anyone who says they can't see it doesn't want to be held responsible with what they do with that information.

Reddog Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon They have visual problem?

the people's eva Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi reminds me of one of my favorite books, Racism Without Racists, a book about colorblind racism and the sociological and historical background of how colorblind racism functions as a tool of white supremacy.

John Refior Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon
“It’s how SCOTUS has been dismantling affirmative action for five decades”

Noah Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon "I don't see color" is just sotto voce "all lives matter." On the surface, and to the speaker, they want it to sound like they're staking a claim around not being racist while others who have done the work to see their own prejudices see such a statement as nothing more than a bigoted dog whistle.

Ben Ramsey Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @mekkaokereke @BlackMastodon When I was a teen, Christian rock/rap group dcTalk released a song called “Colored People,” which was a call to embrace our differences rather than ignore them. https://youtu.be/iM17qeIIIE4

DC Talk - Colored People

YouTube

Spiky Shoe Jul 16, 2023

Everyone sees color and everyone is judgmental. Pretending that reality is wrong never seems to work. I have met racism of every creed and color and it never surprises me because I see color and I am judgmental like all real humans

Dudula the Dud Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi
That's meaningless, unless it means they also pay no attention to hair colour. @BlackMastodon

Real_JamesCain Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon #StephenColbert might not have started the whole “I don’t see color” but he sure helped it go viral.

Flock of Cats 🐈 🐈 🐈 ❄️Jul 16, 2023

Also it’s almost surely not true 🙃

Brandon Jones Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon It's so easy to say this with the best of intentions and be ignorant of the implications.

I'm white, my oldest son is black. I don't think of him as my "black son", he's just my son. I don't consider his skin color when I'm interacting with him day to day because there's so much more to him than that. It would be easy to slip into saying "I don't see his race".

But actually ignoring that aspect of who he is would be to do him a grave disservice and fail him as a parent!

Brandon Jones Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Even at a superficial level, in skin and hair care alone I can't simply throw the same products at him that I use and assume it'll be fine. I have to see his individual needs.

But deeper than that, I can't assume he'll have the same experiences at school and (eventually) in the workforce as I did. I need to educate and prepare myself to best help him with life challenges I didn't personally face.

It's uncomfortable at times, but he's absolutely worth it!

Sarah E Bourne Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Someone who says that is lying, to themselves at the least.

Hell's Kitchen Bitches! 🦮🔥Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @MandyMay @BlackMastodon People who say this, often times can't see color because their privilege is blocking their view! I frequently advise such folks that they may want to tuck that back.

Jürgen Hubert Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Nope, that pretty much sums it up.

Legion Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Also, it's fucking bullshit unless the person is blind.

Eloise42 Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I always thought that statement was dumb it always made me think why they are beautiful as they are. How does not seeing people make anything better? Different generations I grew up with all races around me. When I went to work same thing. I saw and heard people who are racist. I protested with my friends because it hurt me to see them hurt. Yes I agree with you.

FoolishOwl Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I figure that if someone uses that expression, they're either a liberal who has somehow been socially isolated since the early 80s, or they're a conscious racist with a right libertarian bent, in an institutional setting, who is deliberately trying to provoke anger while posturing as innocent of any such intention.

Marc Scheffel Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I appreciate your post. It reminds me that language is often constructed so specifically to enable racism in this country and I should always listen carefully and be mindful of how I speak. Color differences are one of things that make people endlessly beautiful to me.

John C. Varner III Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon
“I don’t see color.” means I choose to be willfully ignorant about the racism around us.

Silver Huskey Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Basically all of this. Every person I've met who's uttered this phrase used it as a way to avoid uncomfortable conversations about race.

nitzanms Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I agree with what I understand in this graphic. Can you say more about "it limits your ability to appreciate individualism"?

Adrienne LaCava Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon That is a wonderful visual. Thank you. 🫡

The Animal and the Machine Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon @mekkaokereke
I’ve only heard it as a means of not recognising white privilege and simultaneously closing down the conversation.

Tends be done by white old men in senior positions who really want to be fair and equal opportunity to all while not accepting debate on how it isn’t. It is allowed by institutionally racist institutions that allow it as it allows them to be institutionally racist behind the smoke screen of equality.

It is the dream of a meritocracy by ivory towers that don’t need to be racist because society has done that work for them.

It becomes the final insult to the black kids by telling them they are not here on merit.

Jennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊Jul 16, 2023

Thank you for the summation. If I were to say "I don't see colour", that would be saying:
First, that I am acknowledging that there are baked-in systemic inequities in our world, and that these are a Problem,
and Second, that I didn't want to care about those, because doing so would be Inconvenient.

Saying "I don't see colour" is still an agreement that a lot of people do, and see it as a problem to be solved in their own way, through discrimination and hate.

Lew Riley Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon If someone says "I don't see color" and they also don't see the impacts of, for some examples, Jim Crow laws, redlining, voter suppression efforts, and mass incarceration of black people they are arguably willfully ignorant and only persist in their ignorance due to unearned privilege. If they aren't ignorant, well, then what we have here is an "eyes wide open" racist who would prefer not to see color, as that benefits them. (Looking at the SCOTUS majority.)

mhoye Jul 16, 2023

https://asofterworld.com/index.php?id=478

I think about this a lot.

A Softer World was ever Friday

Strange Culprits HAS MOVED Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon also, yes you do! Even people with achromatopsia see all the shades of gray. People say dumb stuff sometimes

Falco SkyWolf Jul 16, 2023

My thought is, "Color-apathy robs you of appreciation, perspective, and compassion- it means you're prone to apathy about anything else to do with discrimination."

Kristine K.Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon Fantastic graphic, gets right to the heart of why this statement is so problematic. I have heard this said by a few people who would consider themselves to be extremely progressive, if not “social justice warriors”, and I remember thinking, “ah, you think you’re on a higher moral plane than the rest of us, don’t you? But you don’t want to do the dirty work of examining why race matters”. It is one of the reasons I don’t call myself progressive even if I share some views, there’s a lot of blindness to what reality looks like for Black people, working class people, anyone not in their sphere. Of course not all progressive/liberal people are like this, it is a very particular strain. I do live in the San Francisco Bay Area by way of a blue-collar Detroit metropolitan suburb, which gives me a different POV from many people I meet here.

@zhivi @BlackMastodon not really something you hear in britain socially - I'm white, but apart from a guy who felt blm was political so shouldn't be in football (his gripe was, all time not spent on football on tv was less football he saw), I've not really heard this kind of view ever. There are open, hidden, blind & anti racists, but this always seems to be a very USA thing

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I shouldn't say this, but racists really make me laugh, they're so hilarious. They just pop out of the blue with this bonkers stuff, if you're white, and not into it yourself, it's only the weirdos with no filters who reveal themselves - and omg are they weird, it's like the covid conspiracy theorists, you can't help laughing, they - they are mad. The only exception in my experience is eastern europeans, where it stems from politics back home. I know it's not funny really.

@zhivi @BlackMastodon but they are crazy. Loop da loop crazy

Yingtai Jul 16, 2023

The dangers of the "I don't see color" mentality

You can't fix something you can't see

It limits your ability to appreciate individualism

It minimises the struggles of POC in today's society

You're not actively dismantling your own prejudices (we all have them!)

It allows you to ignore the complexities of racial issues

Artist: @ohhappydani (platform unknown)

#alt4you @zhivi

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I was thinking about why, & I realised, if I was poc, I'd find out by people saying hurtful things to me, but as I'm not, I find out by people opening their gobs & spouting the most bonkers beliefs, so it's not aggressive, it's narrative format, as well as not being scary or hurtful. Also, irony of racist immigrants always cracks me up. Like a motorist who was ranting on about how threatened he was by bicyclists. Shop customer suddenly yelling "It's the Zulus!" for instance

Probably Paul Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi

Great thread on this topic here, which explains it by completely changing the context:

https://calckey.social/notes/9h94m8g0whlg3hxh

A.R. Moxon, Verified Duck 🦆 (@[email protected])

THE RIVER'S MOUTH So let’s say you’re on the subway and it’s crowded, and let’s say a guy gets onto your car and crowd in next to you. And let’s say he steps on your toes. And you think, hey, it’s a crowded car, probably just a mistake. It hurt, but it didn’t injure. You assume no ill will. You might not even say anything about it. It’s city living. https://armoxon.substack.com/p/the-rivers-mouth

Calckey Social

Karen Strickholm Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon The most powerful thing I've heard about this is perhaps this: When people say I don't see color, what a person hears is "I don't see you." There is a devastating erasure in that phrase.

troy_friz_zell Jul 16, 2023

When i hear someone say, "I don't see color" what they're telling me is that they're a racist liar.

I grew up in the southern USA. I've heard every bullshit excuse for racism. Don't bring that weak shit up in here. No one is buying.

•iamwe•Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon
#Spill

Michael Porter Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @ikeacurtains @BlackMastodon I have a hard time with this. I think it’s a stupid way for a person to virtue signal.
Me, I *see* colour, and love it. Life’s rich pageant. I’m pigment-challenged, so I may also be a little jealous. 😊

John Colagioia Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi Having grown up at a time where the media decided that they would never mention race, I'll say that it's a great policy for feeling comfortable about life. Things just happen to certain people for NO REASON, because we steadfastly will not see any difference between people seeing different outcomes.

2¢Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon how about simply: Bullshit, everyone sees color. Just, bullshit.

Vayl Larkin (they/them)Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon I'm happy to have this to Boost. This is a toxic behavior in white people like myself and we All need to unlearn it and replace it with facts from actual Black people. Thank you.

David McMullin Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi
Another problem with it is that, though perhaps intended as metaphor or hyperbole, it just sounds like a lie. “Color is unimportant to me” would still have all the problems you mention, but at least it’s clearly a subjective statement, whereas “I don’t see color” is simply false. What they really think about it, who can say, but they do see it or they wouldn’t be talking about it.

David McMullin Jul 17, 2023

@zhivi
It’s natural and human to prefer avoiding problems to facing them. And some problems (not this one) don’t need to be solved, or might resolve themselves eventually. But I’m having trouble thinking of any other problem where people profess to believe that ignoring it is actually the key to solving it.

Kender Guy Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon if not seeing color is a potential solution to racism, not feeling heat is a potential solution to the climate crisis. Though I can't say much about race, because my answer is completely different. Groups like race or metalheads or whatever are generalized based on individuals I perceive in those groups, but not the other way around. There's too much individual diversity to make generalizations based on groups.

AtomicBioPunk (He/Him)Jul 16, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon ,"Not seeing color is the same as whitewashing". My reaction as a POC (SE-asian)

CaseyL Jul 16, 2023

My thoughts, as a white person, is when someone says "I don't see color" they are just plain lying.

(So I translate the "I don't see color" as "I am racist as hell and am talking in code to other racists.")

One World One People Jul 17, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon TWW: The woman who bore you, the family that raises you and the friends that accept you are the early anchors to the society in which you recognize yourself. *I apologize for not adding to this thread earlier. As in the above I know that your skin tone does not determine your culture or society. That said our larger society does insist on this. I feel it’s up to each of us to listen to those meet and honor the definition that they express. OWOP

Twee Jack Jul 17, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon

R: "I don't see colour"

AR: "I am so sorry for you, you must find that so inconvenient...
...oh, you don't?!"

Damon Outlaw Jul 17, 2023

@zhivi @BlackMastodon It honestly is a lie and insulting to any level of intelligence. Even children are quick to notice differences. You mean to tell me that if the avg person goes into a space where there's more people a different skin colour than they are, they will not notice and not have some level of discomfort? I don't buy that for a second. Of course, the level of discomfort varies per person but point stands.