Drew Lewis
Eric A. MeyerTwitter learned, and Reddit is fast learning, that people are not addicted to the platform, they’re addicted to the community they found there. Ruin the community, and people will leave the platform. It really is that simple.
Welp, this blew up! No way I’m gonna be able to read/follow all the replies, so I hope you’re all being civil to one another in there. Also, a special shout out to my fellow Olds, who I noticed pointing out (long-)past services that also learned this the hard way.
PMacDiggity@Meyerweb do they care though? They have a massive, highly tagged data set for LLM training, since they realized that they can gate and sell the data we created to training new models it’s likely all they care about. Even if it never gets new content, it’s likely valuable for that as it is today.
Felis Cat@pmacdiggity isn't all of the data generated up to this point already exfild by anyone who would want it though?
@Sternness3985 I don’t think so, I think there will be many new players entering the market. Some will be establish corporations kicking off new initiatives, some will be new startups. Reddit will want a chunk of that funding. This is likely why they’re shutting down the API so quickly; so they can monetize the data before it gets exfild by enough 3rd parties.
@pmacdiggity that's a good point. it sounds like reddit believes that, too.
AdeptVeritatisTraining models from yesterday have the same value as marketing data from yesterday.
Jargoggles@pmacdiggity @Meyerweb There's not much that can be done about data that's already been harvested, but at least you can do a small part in poisoning the well for future scraping. I used PowerDeleteSuite to scrub all my content. You can roll through and edit all your comments: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Andres Jalinton@pmacdiggity @Meyerweb
@julia
The issue is, LLM "content" is so trash no one likes it. You can't train a LLM to have a good sense of humor and be funny. Sure, it can write correctly and "resume text" but it's not creative and fun like real people, if you ask it for a joke it's just... lame unless it blatantly copy someone else, and if you want a new joke?
@julia
The issue is, LLM "content" is so trash no one likes it. You can't train a LLM to have a good sense of humor and be funny. Sure, it can write correctly and "resume text" but it's not creative and fun like real people, if you ask it for a joke it's just... lame unless it blatantly copy someone else, and if you want a new joke?
Ragnell the Mildly Unpleasant@pmacdiggity @Meyerweb That's why #Razit is a thing. There's instructions on how to turn all your posts into gibbereish before you leave.
Steve Karsch 🤘🏻
@Meyerweb It’s a forum with ads. We’ve all been using them since the dawn of the time (1/1/1970). They should/will go the way of MySpace, Digg, AOL, Delphi, Prodigy, Compuserve, BBSes, etc. And some other forum will take its place.
Kendall Seabury
Its Wizard TimeYou may not see another platform like those for a while, but that doesn't mean the people aren't going somewhere. It means they aren't all running to a monolithic platform.
I've realized that all I really need is a combination of Discord, Forums, & Mastodon. It's really not different from when I was a kid.
AIM/ICQ for instant messaging
Chatrooms/Forums for more nuanced discussions based on topic.
Livejournal/Myspace/Friendster for keeping up with our friends.
CIWS-30
gern@Meyerweb I’m not sure Twitter has learned though. Not from the look of things anyway.
Staid Winnow
Reck@Meyerweb @staidwinnow @gern Isn’t a barely functioning platform full of celebrities and journalists the doom prophesied? It looked like they were talking about getting rid of the block button next.
@HeavyMetalWings @Meyerweb @gern No. The doomsayers were certain that most people would leave, and the place would go the way of…MySpace.
Instead, very few are estimated to have left (and not returned.)
Respectable folks like Stephen King, AOC, most all journalists are still bathing in that white supremacy cesspool.
Reality does not change because I despise Musk.
elkaki@staidwinnow @HeavyMetalWings @Meyerweb @gern
Yet
I wouldn't be so pessimistic, no change happens overnight.
With reddit if the power users leave and big subreddits stop existing users will notice a downgrade in quality sooner or later.
Twitter just depends on famous people showing they interact in other platforms. And those platforms to be newbie friendly
We have seen big sites fall off overtime or at least loose relevance for the top spot as the younger generations shift to new things.
@staidwinnow @Meyerweb @gern I think engagement, like # of users posting on a given day, is a much more meaningful metric than number of people who've deleted their accounts. Plenty of people who still have twitter consider it barely usable. And what is it about politicians and millionaire authors that you find respectable?
serklarvel@staidwinnow @gern @Meyerweb Twitter's revebues fell by 60%, Musk is stiffing suppliers and former employees in order to reduce losses. I don't think Twitter is fine at all.
TᴀᴄᴋᴇʀTᴀᴄᴋᴇʀ 🐰@staidwinnow @gern @Meyerweb That's not quite true, at least not in Germany. A study found that overall Tweets written in German declined by 20%
Relatively small bubbles on average become even smaller & tweet less, which points to a decline in diversity of opinions
The bubble that was predominantly right wing has tweeted 64% more
So Twitter is basically experiencing brain drain, you might not see the people you follow delete their accounts, but they spend less time on it.
https://vogel.rip/pdf/Datenexploration--Wie-hat-sich-das-deutschsprachige-Twitter-von-2021-bis-2023-ver%C3%A4ndert-.pdf
Relatively small bubbles on average become even smaller & tweet less, which points to a decline in diversity of opinions
The bubble that was predominantly right wing has tweeted 64% more
So Twitter is basically experiencing brain drain, you might not see the people you follow delete their accounts, but they spend less time on it.
https://vogel.rip/pdf/Datenexploration--Wie-hat-sich-das-deutschsprachige-Twitter-von-2021-bis-2023-ver%C3%A4ndert-.pdf
step.back.doors.closing@TackerTacker @staidwinnow @gern @Meyerweb for what it’s worth, there is so much Germanposting on Mastodon and Lemmy. It’s interesting to see that backed up with numbers
Earthy Tonez@Meyerweb weird that people have been talking about the slow decline of social media for a couple of years, doesn’t seem like this is the right approach to counter it.
@Meyerweb Except most of Qwitter’s community has stayed. And is the reason reddit is trying out the same for their platform.
The blackouts have a better chance of forcing reddit’s hand if they last. If most are just for 48 hours, they’ll not succeed.
It is not as if that community has another place to move that is as convenient.
It is promising though that 7200 of 7800 are joining in the protest.
@staidwinnow @Meyerweb wait why is appollo app not private right now? Trying to stay neutral?
Ash_Crow@cygnus_crosseye @staidwinnow @Meyerweb a number of big subreddits have restricted posting instead of going completely dark, so that posts explaining the blackout still appear in r/all
Shaunkoh@staidwinnow @Meyerweb 100% agreed. All Reddit as to do to win is to outlast 48 hours. Big whoop.
It’s basically a game of chicken, except one side has already said when they’re going to blink.
My hope it is that it serves as a test and rallying call for the blackout to sustain itself after the 48 hours are over – every revolution needs an on-ramp after all.
\_forsamori_/@Meyerweb that’s exactly why I’m here. I think even if Reddit were to roll-back their changes, I still won’t go back to my decade-old account. They’ve eroded the last of the trust I had, and sadly brought low such an amazing platform. That being said, this is such a fantastic opportunity for platforms like Mastodon, and I’m very excited to be along for the ride! 
Ake Lupe@forsamori @Meyerweb +1; decentralized and federated is the way, imo;
Of course these latest developments won't change the status quo, but it strenghthens alternatives.
They get their ad machine with pretty numbers to impress shareholders, we get more like minded people to escape from those platforms. Win-win?
Of course these latest developments won't change the status quo, but it strenghthens alternatives.
They get their ad machine with pretty numbers to impress shareholders, we get more like minded people to escape from those platforms. Win-win?
@forsamori @Meyerweb this is why mastodon still can’t replace Reddit for me: threads need to be publicly indexed to be helpful to people in the future.
For instance, I searched for “is mastodon indexed by the open web”. No mastodon toot threads were indexed, just these Reddit threads that I ought not click on anymore.
There’s value in threads being indexed. It will be a shame to see that go away.
@Shaunkoh @Meyerweb I feel like the other #fediverse Reddit-likes might be a better solution. #mastodon is for microblogging primarily - whereas something like #lemmy is more likely what you’re looking for. Personally I’m interested in using both.
active landslide@Meyerweb Using the word ‘learned’ is giving the platforms a lot of credit. I prefer ‘found out’
darkufoAnd the other collapses of Digg and MySpace
Ultraklystron (Karl Olson)@Meyerweb one would've hoped Tumblr's collapse under Yahoo/Verizon and eventual sale to Automattic for literally fractions of a penny on the dollar would've been this cosmic sign to social media and forums companies to never screw up the vibe by UX nor by policy, but nope. Everytime they think they're different, and everytime they eventually are shown to be the exact same.
Sloan Studio@Meyerweb @thomasfuchs Social part is important to social platforms? LOL
Ioan@Meyerweb what's going on on Reddit? Keep reading about it
Luna:babaw_is: NOT 
@IoanSaid @Meyerweb TLDR, they decided to start charging for API access, and their pricing is unreasonably high. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if they provided good clients, but a very large number of users agree that the official mobile apps are trash (apparently even completely unusable for those who depend on screen readers), and the official mod tools aren't great either
laxsill@Meyerweb really puts this quote in perspective https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/12/tech/reddit-blackout/index.html
@laxsill I love this one. I don't know why anyone would decide to moderate a subreddit as Reddit exists today. It's not a community run platform and it won't even be a privately traded company for much longer. Why would anyone donate time for the betterment of a wealthy, publicly traded social media giant?
Arve@lewishazell @laxsill as a long time moderator on Reddit: you don’t choose to moderate, moderation chooses you because you care about the health of a community you participate in. Those are the mods Reddit have now pissed off. Reddit’s multi-year effort to make the job as miserable as possible for us, including killing apps that make moderation on mobile tolerable, is driving us away. Which is why the blackout will last until they remove us or fix their shit.
@arve @laxsill It's very noble of you and I can definitely understand the sense of community can outweigh the state of the platform. I just can't see myself stepping up to volunteer my time to effectively be the backbone of someone else's company. At this point they're basically calling anyone using their API, for moderation or not, freeloaders for using it without paying. That's my problem with it, they won't give as much as a thank you and eventually demand payment.
@lewishazell @laxsill It doesn't start that way. The first subreddit I got involved in had one member - me - and was intended for Norwegians on Reddit to post articles in Norwegian. Before we turned off the lights at midnight CET, we typically saw 350-400k unique users every month, with 50k on any given day.
I also moderate a few others that started with a few thousand subscribers, but now into the millions.
It's about wanting community without becoming a sysadmin
varx/tech@arve @lewishazell @laxsill That's the sneaky bit—you care about the community, and what will happen to it, even if the platform is being abusive. You can help protect people from spam, and trolls, even while the platform makes it hard for you to do your job.
But it's a trap.
There's no requirement for you to spend your time and energy there. I agonized about leaving reddit and what would happen to my communities, but as soon as I'd handed over control to other mods I felt so free... *and* I realized that I didn't care so deeply as I had just a day ago.
It was such a sudden change in perspective, and it later helped me walk away from a similar situation—again, a good idea in retrospect.
Ossiana Tepfenhart@Meyerweb I miss old Twitter so bad
newsorpigalTwitter has lost advertisers, but have they lost a substantial number of active users?
Hughster@newsorpigal @Meyerweb No. And that's the problem with this take, sadly.
sub_o@Meyerweb Twitter learned?!
I got what you're saying though, but I believe we're gonna see these shit from internet companies more and more.
They think they have leverage by potentially replacing community with AI.
@Meyerweb It seems like the requirements to become a CEO these days is not about making a quality product or have any business sense, but just to organize words in a confident and convincing way with no regard for facts, so that ignorant investors will dump money into something.
ChatGPT does exactly this, very well.
66gardeners@Meyerweb
We will continue on our path to a more perfect union!
We will continue on our path to a more perfect union!
Ryan Ford@Meyerweb We learned this at deviantart ~15-20 years ago, long before reddit or twitter existed.
Just like today, business interests always worked hard to trump community needs. We even had dedicated community managers because we knew the community was critical, but they were so frequently ignored or overruled due to corporate goals. Over time, the *community* dwindled and was replaced by simple users with no stickiness.
Stuart Langridge@Meyerweb ...and then the sort of people who are attracted to the community you now have left will come and join up. And now you're a Nazi bar, or a content farm, or whatever.
Jerry Gonzalez 
JeffTheDog@Meyerweb Well, one of the reasons I rarely come here is because of the platform. It's clunky and I just end up moving on fairly quickly. Twitter's UI is much better.
spherulitic@JeffTheDog the Nazis and conspiracy theories over there look beautiful
Yaoi Box Balloon@Meyerweb It was never really about their fancy toys made from digiblocks. It was always people.
Tito Ciuro