Mastodawn

MargaretAdams Mar 31, 2023

This is actually false, New York Times. Ex-presidents have never been “shielded from indictment.” There is no “taboo.”

Ex-presidents have always been subject to prosecution for their crimes. Vice-presidents, state governors, and congressmen have all been indicted and even imprisoned.

Only one thing is new here: an incorrigible career criminal became president.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/30/us/politics/trump-indictment-democracy.html?unlocked_article_code=TyR2nPdw64cv07eIzC7yxLxDsARzmm2yCdealUwCCBXjQXEk9N6LqJdynlb717HiF6GCa5s2uiT-rPRL7d_xOeF2yimTCLIrkbzWU_Ch5jcDouarKvN0pihm00fyECbfNHXdPtbHNZqJr7rTIYay2zA6sboZSX6oPIhTxPSwnRwAIQC-ydjPHj45n2lyaAPEvz7ZzT1FBR8ZWUvvFGmJgxOc2n_P-6EHTZfmgKUDb9aPZ6bU1k3rBDXLGBGShbODt2TrWJzMk0hQa9XU-do6Xaq5uix5NVPZTVq35oiJ5Bxgw_xEgPbCdO1kx07LY6yDoRZwB6QkWadseQ5a2Rn49nBbAbA&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Trump Indictment, a First for a U.S. President, Tests Democracy

For more than two centuries, American presidents were effectively shielded from indictment. But the case against former President Donald J. Trump breaks that taboo and sets a new precedent.

The New York Times

Space Hobo Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick The *third* vice-president of the US was indicted for *murder* in two states, tried for *treason* in one, and fled to Europe to try and make a deal with Napoleon to escape consequences.

Max Kennerly Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick It's exhausting to see so many ahistorical, anti-legal takes arguing for putting politicians above the law.

While sitting as Vice President, Aaron Burr was indicted for murder by both New York and New Jersey.

Two years after leaving office, he was federally indicted for treason.

The Framers had ample opportunity to create all-purpose legal immunity for politicians. They declined.

Sue Cohen Mar 31, 2023

@maxkennerly @JamesGleick
Brilliant. Thank you
So happy to see @RockyMntnMike finally get his due
“Happiness is a Jailed Trump”
I’m truly happy, you?
https://youtu.be/zFViwAtaX04
#TrumpForPrison

Happiness Is A Jailed Trump

YouTube

Elz de Korte Apr 1, 2023

@SueInRockville @maxkennerly @JamesGleick Love it

@maxkennerly @JamesGleick If only someone would make an accessible popularization of the reasons that Aaron Burr was indicted...

😉

Darwin Woodka Mar 31, 2023

@adamshostack @maxkennerly @JamesGleick pardon me, are you Aaron Burr, sir?

LibertyForward1 Mar 31, 2023

@maxkennerly @JamesGleick They declined because all-purpose legal immunity would effectively make them monarchs.

Gentleman Programmer Mar 31, 2023

@LibertyForward1 @maxkennerly @JamesGleick Since the Magna Carta, not even monarchs are above the law

EyalL Mar 31, 2023

How is the NYT consistently putting out such garbage?

And it's considered a "left wing" publication

@JamesGleick @Porpentina2017

Richard Apr 1, 2023

@maxkennerly @JamesGleick I never hear anyone citing Spiro Agnew in all of this. He definitely got a sweetheart deal and preferential treatment, but his case is pretty similar to Trump's in that criminal corruption continued into his term of office. Though in Agnew's case, the money was moving into his pocket, not out...

Andrew Ordover Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick 100%. The difference is not what we have to do him; the difference is what he has done to us.

We Can Be Gyros Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick NYT considers blow jobs illegal unless you're a cop?

Dave T-W Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick It's false and dangerous for them to push such a statement on their front page, knowing what TFG is trying to stir up.

Sheldon Rampton Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Spiro Agnew was the sitting vice president when he pleaded no contest to a felony and resigned from office to avoid a criminal trial.

Steven Molnar Mar 31, 2023

@sheldonrampton @JamesGleick I believe you are confusing VP Agnew's plea with VP Quayle's skull. Easy to do.

Femme Malheureuse Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick *in Jack Nicholson voice* Forget it, Jake, it's Peter Baker-NYT.

Lizard Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick No other President crimed so frequently and so stupidly. Trump made himself un-un-indictable by going out of his way to commit SO many crimes, in SO blatant and obvious a fashion.

Andreas K Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Exactly.
Former ex-presidents were "shielded" mostly by the fact of being mostly decent guys, and by being rather well vetted by their parties.

But to claim that they were shielded due to being ex-presidents is mixing cause and effect.

daveeater Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick The exception here was Nixon, who skated justice because of the pardon. Other than that, the reason former Presidents haven’t indicted is that they haven’t been career criminals. There hasn’t been any basis for prosecution.
Trump is a fairly stupid sociopath, who happened to be born into money. If not for the money, he would have been in prison decades ago.

Grumble Mar 31, 2023

@daveeater @JamesGleick Nixon was smart enough to negotiate a blanket pardon for himself. Mr. "Art of the Deal" isn't so clever.

Now we get to see for ourselves who can negotiate better deals with Trump's former henchmen: NY prosecutors, or The Donald himself.

Francis 🇾🇪 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Well, they've all been war criminals from time immemorial with zero consequences.

just adrienne Mar 31, 2023

@francis @JamesGleick Yeah, but the US loves war criminals, unfortunately.

f*cking b*tch club Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Another thing is true here: an unacceptably large % of sitting members of Congress don’t think the former prez should be indicted—because they LIKED WHAT HE DID!

Joe Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick I automatically skip any NYTimes "analysis" if Peter Baker is in the byline.

Jaime Robertson Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick This idea that Presidents are above the law is incredibly backwards, they should be held to a higher standard.
One thing I’m wondering; if in the (unlikely) case of him being sentenced to prison, is there one where the guards/wardens won’t treat him like a king?

caseyjonesed Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick indicting TFG reinforces democracy 😎

Andrew "Harris/? 2024" Glisson Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Nixon is the only one I'm aware of who got off, and even he got an official pardon for his crimes, which Trump does not have, to halt prosecution.

Grant was arrested WHILE President. Simpler (!) times.

wondrng1 Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick — yes, Ford’s pardon saving Nixon from prosecution; & Starr’s own peculiar shortcomings saving Clinton from warning to exiting Clinton that he was liable for prosecution after exiting presidency.

David Scott Moyer Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick To be fair, Nixon was shielded by Ford's pardon.

James Gleick Mar 31, 2023

@farbel Or, precisely because neither the law nor tradition would have shielded Nixon from prosecution, Ford had to pardon him.

David Scott Moyer Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick I wonder why he wasn't charged with local crimes in DC that wouldn't be subject to pardon?

Keith Ivey Mar 31, 2023

@farbel @JamesGleick Unfortunately because DC is not a state, local crimes are subject to presidential pardon. Most crimes in DC are prosecuted by the US attorney.

Great Wendt Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick NYT, the oldest continuously published piece of garbage in America

Matthew van Eerde Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick President Grant was arrested while in office - he paid a fine and was not charged. https://www.grantcottage.org/blog/2018/5/18/the-thin-blue-line

The Thin Blue Line — U.S. Grant Cottage National Historic Landmark

The police force in all its facets has played a pivotal role in our society throughout U.S. history. In honor of National Police Week, let’s take a look at how police played a part in the life of U.S. Grant.

U.S. Grant Cottage National Historic Landmark

clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Apr 1, 2023

@mvaneerde @JamesGleick And he even had "U.S." in his name!

Democracy Matters

Thank you!

Escarpment Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick The term "career criminal" is extremely apt- thank you. And his biggest crime can't be prosecuted because it's more abstract. But his whole movement and presidency basically knifed American democracy in the back. Jan 6 was just one manifestation of his assault on America.

✡️ MG ✡️ #VoteBlue Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick And the ONLY reason this is the 1st time is because Ford gave Nixon an unconditional pardon. DOJ might have charged him, otherwise.

John G Fitzgerald Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick NYT publishes lies.

Hash Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick
This guy wanted to make law and order dissappear

Michael Vilain Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Is it me or has the NYT fallen into the Republican Dumpster Fire?

I get many newspapers letting go of reporters and relying on news services rather than having a newsroom of their own. But the NY Times?

Was there a change in ownership or did they hire a new editor? It ain't what it used to be.

loucovey Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick I think the operative word here is *effectively*. Nixon could have been prosecuted but was pardoned. Harding died before he could be prosecuted. This is the first time that a President has survived the process thus far without providential or political protection. But there is still the chance that he will be found to have died accidentally by falling backwards a dozen times on Melania’s letter opener

KOS-MOS Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick NYT has made such an elementary error that they would get a US citizenship test question wrong:

12. What is the “rule of law”?
▪ Everyone must follow the law.
▪ Leaders must obey the law.
▪ Government must obey the law.
▪ No one is above the law. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/questions-and-answers/100q.pdf

Raphael Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Didn't Illinois basically have a Governor's-mansion-to-prison pipeline for a while?

Locksmith Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Right.
"Unprecedented. Un-American."
Unprecedented means never happened before. As you said, perhaps we have never had a president who was such a perfect combination of a lying, egomaniac, deranged, immature and incompetent human being who bent all rules to fit his interests.
And "un-American" is exactly what republicans are doing. Shielding one of theirs from the law that is supposed to apply to all of us.

ScottinSoCal 🇺🇦 🕊 🏳‍🌈Mar 31, 2023

The only reason Nixon wasn't prosecuted is Ford pardoned him. Ford was a putz. Prosecuting Nixon would have sent a clear message.

NullNoMore Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick - the pet gerbil of my childhood was named Spiro T. Agnew, after the US Vice President of the time. He was a bitey little creature, but never pleaded no contest to tax fraud, unlike his namesake.

Mark vW Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick I remember Spiro Agnew, the crook. Just a heartbeat away.

Steve Hersey Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick
False and stupid, too.
The only reason for ex-presidents to have been "effectively shielded" from prosecution is that they didn't usually commit crimes while in office.
Nixon only escaped prosecution because Ford pardoned him.
If there's a "taboo" here, it's that presidents aren't supposed to break the laws they've sworn to uphold.
That is simple enough that even the NYT should be able to understand it.

Grumble Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick To the extent that there's a taboo, it resides in the ex-presidents themselves.

Over 90% of ex-presidents have seen fit not to not personally act like lawless assholes.

Captain Hindsight Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick @alexmedinabright The NY Times being wrong is as predictable as saying water is wet.

Kypedsnp Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick An incorrigible career criminal becoming president is new? No. It's pretty much the norm.

Queen of Anxiety Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Nixon would have been indicted if Ford didn’t pardon him to cover up all the other people involved in Watergate.

Dave Volek Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick
Is not the 2016 presidential election a sign of a broken system?

It's time for a new way.

#tiereddemocraticgovernance

Gentleman Programmer Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Putin had the foresight to make himself immune from prosecution for life

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/putin-signs-bill-granting-lifetime-immunity-to-former-russian-presidents?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Putin signs bill granting lifetime immunity to former Russian presidents

Legislation will give former leaders and their families protection from prosecution

The Guardian

Edward Branley Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick
the NYT are bad actors who don't deserve your money.

Lstn2urmama Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick this is the planted seed Russia stated would happen to USA very many years ago...Putins Trump card...with reason that is how covid even came to be from Russian friend in China...said right from the beginning, to implement what was about to start and weaken everyone from being able to stop them financially as well as having the men availability, NO one else is so obvious...Communist reprisal...

Jack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick Makes you wonder about the NYT. Iʼm not an American and I knew this. How come they didnʼt?

Sylvester Mar 31, 2023

@JamesGleick
In fact, the Constitution is quite explicit saying that former Presidents are NOT shielded from criminal indictment even if they've been impeached and removed from office. Being defeated for re-election is a political misfortune, not a criminal penalty.