JaysnDec 24, 2022
Taylor Lorenz
Very good piece by @mmasnick https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/19/i-speak-fluent-new-social-media-ceo-whos-in-over-their-head-let-me-translate-the-last-few-days-of-twitter-policy/ #twittermigration #twitterexodus #twitter #tech #technews #technology #journalist
I Speak Fluent ‘New Social Media CEO Who’s In Over Their Head’; Let Me Translate The Last Few Days Of Twitter Policy

The last few days on Twitter have been, well, chaotic, I guess? Beyond the blocking of the ElonJet account, followed by the blocking of the @JoinMastodon account, then the blocking of journalists a…

Techdirt
Dec 19, 2022 at 11:07pmMastodon for iOS
Show threadvoidmstr 🌎Dec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick https://xkcd.com/1357/
Free Speech

xkcd
Show threadCaseyDec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick I also don’t want to see full nudity or sex acts at my town square.
Show threadWurstsemmel 🕊🇺🇦 #SlavaUkraïniDec 19, 2022

@taylorlorenz @mmasnick Ok great. Now we're back to realizing that this is all just about acknowledging that "crazy assholes" should not get a say.

Back to the stone age, thank you. Same struggle: Who is an asshole, and who is not. Been there, thought it was sorted out with moderation at e.g. the bird site.

We already knew that this question is a dilemma years or decades ago, but unfortunately, Mastodon offers even less help in moderating that dilemma.

I'm a little lost now. 🤷‍♂️

Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 19, 2022

@wurstsemmel @taylorlorenz I did not say that, and I am not sure how you could read it that way.

I am saying that the owner of a home gets to decide if someone is violating the rules of that home, that they should leave.

That's it.

Show threadWurstsemmel 🕊🇺🇦 #SlavaUkraïniDec 19, 2022

@mmasnick @taylorlorenz I totally agree with you on that.

Still, everything boils down to that question: Who is enough of an asshole (or Nazi, etc. pp). Thus: Same as it's ever been, no?

Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 19, 2022
@wurstsemmel @taylorlorenz again, in the end it comes down to "my house, my rules," which is why something like the fediverse is an interesting change. As you get to pick your house, and see who's running it. Or set up your own house.
Show threadWurstsemmel 🕊🇺🇦 #SlavaUkraïniDec 20, 2022
@mmasnick @taylorlorenz Not here to pick a fight, Mike.
Show threadJonathan Hartley's old accountDec 20, 2022
@wurstsemmel There is no need for that. Mike has just been responding to your thoughts in a specific and helpful way.
Show threadAndreas KDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick @wurstsemmel @taylorlorenz Yes, and no.

My home, my rules. Right

And at the instance level, you have some leeway.

But on the federation level, there is only one mainstream Fediverse.

And as some have pointed out, there is a peer-pressure to throw out the “assholes”. And the exact rules are somewhat greyish. OTOH.

No centralized platform has really consistent moderation, either. Shrug.

Show threadAndreas KDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick @wurstsemmel @taylorlorenz The non-consistent moderation/greyish rules btw are logical if you consider:

Humans do the moderation. (AIs are trained on human decisions, so just reproduce the human biases, etc.). Different humans do not apply such complex but obviously subjective rules consistently.

Even on a centralized system, different standards apply via different jurisdictions.
But platforms prefer to fudge this over instead of acknowledging this.

Show threadMax Riethmuller (TechLife)Dec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick exactly. Good moderation improves free speach by making a space safer for everyone, including minorities, to participate.
Show threadKatMDec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick Mike's pieces have been a great read throughout this whole mess
Show threadAdnanDec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz https://xkcd.com/1357/
Free Speech

xkcd
Show threadBotscheFWB🆓️💡✒Dec 19, 2022

@taylorlorenz @mmasnick

Very good

Show threadTheHuckShowDec 19, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick the problem is that he was just a guest in the house, agreed with what the crazy assholes were yelling, and decided to buy the house so that they could stay
Show threadZhi Zhu 🕸️Dec 20, 2022

@taylorlorenz @mmasnick

The xkcd comic titled "Free Speech" always seems relevant to these discussions.

#xkcd #Comics #FreeSpeech

Show threadcmyankoDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick
It comes down to free speech isn't what you think it is and doesn't mean you can say anything, we all know this instinctively
Show threadTim ChambersDec 20, 2022

@taylorlorenz @mmasnick

As Matt Muellenweg said: "'There are no atheists in foxholes'? I think that there’s no free speech absolutists who run social networks, because you start to realize the nuance of that public square and the responsibilities to the users and society, and the fact that it’s a lot messier."

https://www.tumblr.com/mostlysignssomeportents/703622290758320128/do-you-know-the-saying-there-are-no-atheists-in

Do you know the saying, 'There are no atheists in foxholes'? I think that there’s no free speech absolutists who run social networks, because you start to realize the nuance of that public square and the responsibilities to the users and society, and the fact that it’s a lot messier.

@photomatt, Tumblr CEO

Tumblr
Show threadexcited for the mastodon riseDec 20, 2022
@tchambers @taylorlorenz @mmasnick ugh come on there are absolutely atheists in foxholes can we please retire that trope? I get you're using it to just establish another point but it's...just a really bad phrase/concept/idea that shouldn't be used by well-meaning people.
Show threadTed SpenceDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick what an amazing quote: “It’s basically the same as how Parler’s then CEO John Matze went from “our content is moderated based off the FCC and the Supreme Court” to “posting pictures of your fecal matter in the comment section WILL NOT BE TOLERATED” in a matter of days.”
Show threadLizardDec 20, 2022
@Tedspence @taylorlorenz @mmasnick "Learning by doing" is good when trying to master a new programming language/game/craft. It's BAD when trying to run a formerly-valuable social media company.
Show threadNathanDec 20, 2022
@Tedspence @taylorlorenz @mmasnick Hubris works in predictable ways.
Show threadRed FasterDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick "crazy asshole" is a cryptofascist yardstick though, like what exactly does that mean?
Show threadDial Tone, Busy Signal *biiip*Dec 20, 2022

@RedFaster @taylorlorenz @mmasnick nobody take the bait, I got this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=example%20of%20being%20a%20crazy%20asshole&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m

Bevor Sie zur Google Suche weitergehen

Show threadRed FasterDec 21, 2022
@simSalabim @taylorlorenz @mmasnick tell me you're an NPC without telling me
Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 20, 2022
@RedFaster @taylorlorenz it means... whatever the property owner decides it means.
Show threadDaveDec 20, 2022

@mmasnick @RedFaster @taylorlorenz it seems this concept is very hard for folks to grasp.

I think you're spot on.

It's like what Donie said on CNN the other day. Being banned sucked for something he did which wasn't a TOS violation, but it's Elmo's house and he can do what he wants.

If the property owner's rules are bad (or erratically enforced eg. Musk) then don't go to that property.

Show threadRed FasterDec 21, 2022
@Brightdave @mmasnick @taylorlorenz based
Show threadChris PattenDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick has it been established that the “stalker” is actually a random crazy person?
Show threadToni AittoniemiDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick Totally nails it.
Show threadHammancheezDec 20, 2022
@gimulnautti @taylorlorenz @mmasnick literally abuser behavior 101
Show threadBernd PorrDec 20, 2022
@gimulnautti @taylorlorenz @mmasnick Spot on. It reminds me how Lukashenko talks about his opponents ( aporox halfway through ). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWeoIK3Idc
BBC: Exclusive Lukashenko interview

YouTube
Show threadToni AittoniemiDec 21, 2022
@berndporr @taylorlorenz @mmasnick What’s happening is eerily similar to what always goes on with crowds supporting these dictators as well. There are always enough people born into brains that see the world primarily through dominator/submissive hierarchies to find traction for this kind of bullshit. Win/win situations are foreign to that kind of worldview, so they latch on to their favorite strongman leader and expect the goods to be delivered.
Show threadToni AittoniemiDec 21, 2022

@berndporr @taylorlorenz @mmasnick And. This is important:

We cannot change this! The latests results coming in from #neuroscience (political neuroscience to be precise), have been pointing heavily towards there being a biological, structural basis in the brain that can be used to predict political attitudes with good accuracy.

I believe it is an evolved trait to churn out a certain amount of people like this. We can’t talk them out of it.

Show threadmaegulDec 21, 2022
@gimulnautti Interesting ... any citations you can share? Wasn't really aware there was a well formed "political neuroscience" field. Generally though, you're touching on the (not too surprising) possibility that our social and technological developments have or will have proper friction with our evolutionary cognitive/psychological development, at least at a large enough social scale. There's some dystopian sci-fi in there where the neuroscience political classification gets precise enough.
Show threadToni AittoniemiDec 21, 2022

@maegul Sure. It’s new, but definitely on it’s own legs already. This paper has a pretty well-formed definition, good particular study, and very nice references section on the emerging field of political neuroscience.

Yang, Wilson, Lu, Cranmer 2022: Functional connectivity signatures of political ideology. PNAS Nexus, Valume 1, Issue 3, July 2022, pgac066

https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/1/3/pgac066/6590843?login=false

Functional connectivity signatures of political ideology

Abstract. Emerging research has begun investigating the neural underpinnings of the biological and psychological differences that drive political ideology,

OUP Academic
Show threadmaegulDec 22, 2022
@gimulnautti Thanks!!
Show threadAgungDec 20, 2022
@gimulnautti @taylorlorenz @mmasnick
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2wNbfGybLPISeFjttRUlVv?si=qQyWqfJyTw2TLbHfb-P7_w
Sesi Shofwan #5: RKUHP, Dekolonisasi atau Regresi Demokrasi?

Listen to this episode from Podcast Bebas Aktif on Spotify. Rancangan Kitab Undang-Undang Hukum Pidana (RKUHP) menuai kontroversi dalam proses pembahasan dan pengeseahannya. Secara umum, ada dua kutub pro dan kontra: ada yang bilang ini keberhasilan dekolonisasi, ada yang bilang ini bentuk regresi demokrasi karena isi RKUHP banyak yang mengekang kebebasan. Mana yang paling masuk akal? Shofwan mengulas argumen-argumen tersebut dan menawarkan alternatif untuk kita renungkan bersama. Selengkapnya di Sesi Shofwan. Temui kami di: Instagram: @kontekstualcom Twitter: @kontekstualcom YouTube: Kontekstual Kunjungi kontekstual.com untuk berita HI paling aktual!

Spotify
Show threadCharles J Gervasi ⚡🛡️🥥Dec 21, 2022
@gimulnautti @taylorlorenz @mmasnick I agree, and it makes me think there must be a great deal of thoughtful people doing the impossible task of moderating #Mastodon instances to make it work as well as it does.
Show threadSandaBlueDeuxDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick Yeah, that goes into a file
Show threadKim Spence-Jones #FBPEDec 20, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick
The fundamental problem is that reality has a left-wing bias. 🤷
Show threadPhotography by JoukoDec 21, 2022
@KimSJ @taylorlorenz @mmasnick And that hypocrisy is the fuel the right runs on. That goes for bots and minions all the way up to politicians and CEOs.
No matter how well-thought out or well-put a critique of Musk/Trump/pick-your-own-fascist is presented, they thrive on their skewed application of rules, values and truths.
I wish I knew the solution, and I see the need to keep pointing out the hypocrisy, but it’s pointing out a feature, not a bug.
Show threadKim Spence-Jones #FBPEDec 21, 2022
@mokumphoto We need a law criminalising ‘deliberately or recklessly misleading the public’. If politicians and the media get away with lies, votes mean nothing, and democracy is dead.
Show threadmuckraking madness Dec 21, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick well put about the screaming guest
Show threadRandoMuseDec 21, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick “somewhat selfish?” What more would he need to do to be declared just selfish? This tripping-over-myself-to-appear-objective journalism is how we ended up with these oligarchs gaining undue power. Start calling it like it is.
Show threadLenyn MilanoDec 21, 2022
@taylorlorenz @mmasnick