ChromaticRat
Dr. D. Elisabeth GlasscoBlack folks hear this all the time in the physical & virtual world. “Maybe, you’re not the right fit.” Decentralization isn’t the panacea for our social media woes if places like #Mastodon can’t incorporate #diversity & #inclusion. It’ll be just another white~dominated space where the far right, white supremos, & other agents of intolerance rule the roost while the good white folks put their heads in the sand and pretend like they’re not the problem.. #BlackTwitter #Inequality #BlackMastodon
Kay Dub@Deglassco I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my experience so far and hope that others find the same community that I’ve found on here. I’m all for the decentralized model - that other app just felt like you could not escape that energy at all as it was programmed to keep pushing it to you. At least you can leave and go to someone else’s house who got more sense on here, just like in real life 😄
@kaydubatl True. But sometimes you don’t want to have to leave. I grew up in the South and we know all about the exigencies of good folks who think the problem would be solved if you people just stay with your kind and don’t talk about race so much.
@Deglassco Southerner here so definitely understand. I’m moreso saying I like the option of having somewhere else to go (for those that may want a break from or choose not to “fight the good fight”) versus having no safe space option at all. Same way we go out in the world - I do my part to try to impact and educate people’s viewpoints knowing some may NEVER change. At some point you want to go home or be in a space and just have a good time in peace. It’s possible here, I feel 🙂
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote@kaydubatl @Deglassco I’m so glad you feel that. 🥰💕Other than calling out,blocking & reporting any BS I see is there something else specific #wyp can do in this app to make it better. #twittermigration #KHive
@Pineywoozle @kaydubatl As long as it’s constructive dialogue, I don’t think blocking helps solve anything. But definitely listening all around can help.
@Deglassco @kaydubatl Some people are so intransigent in their racism blocking seems the only recourse so I don’t swear at them and fuel the ugly. But I’ll take your suggestion. Hope you and yours are having a Happy Thanksgiving. 🥰💕
@Pineywoozle @kaydubatl I agree with you. I am here to listen and express my experience. But if one’s first response is to devalue the experience of others and say the newcomers are the problem and that they are the ones who broke a perfect system, then what’s there to say? Blocking is their only response.
@Deglassco @kaydubatl Hopefully there are enough of us comming who will stand up to them. The potential is here to have a truly inclusive space & I for one am gonna do what I can to materialize it💕👍 #khive
phytolipide
Sofia ☭🇧🇷☭@kaydubatl @Deglassco a lot of the comments I've seen from Black people about what they'd like instances to do differently seem like good ideas in general, not just for Black users! So I hope some more Black people do become admins or mods, but obviously I get the danger of having a bunch of Black users suddenly leave other instances. But it looks like a lot of instances are expanding their mod teams right now, so hopefully they'll become more diverse?
Christoph Mergerson@Deglassco @kaydubatl I wish I could like this a thousand times.
This is also a future conference panel waiting to happen.
Coty Rosenblath@coty @Deglassco @kaydubatl [S-bomb], I may actually have to do something useful academically this week ... [looks up conference schedules]
MaryPotWhy does it have to be the harassed that have to seek a haven? This is a new WORLDWIDE space. Wouldn't it be a much better space if those that want to harass or be harassed are the ones that have to go find somewhere else to do it than on servers where everyone else manages to get along?
@MaryPot @Deglassco That’s the ideal! 🙌🏽. And no one has to do anything! During that process though, you’re also choosing if and/or how you want to have peace and when as well. Everybody has different life experiences, triggers, stresses, etc. that warrant different responses! ☺️
Most people have a negative response to being disrepected and bullied. Bullies do that to anyone they can get to - for size, race, handicaps, interests or just "because". Bullying behaviour by any user should not be tolerated by any confederated server. It brings no good.
I would think(hope!) that something like that would be in the Fediverse Charter.
Some things only trigger a few - snakes or swearing. Those few of us that don't want to see that stuff can block the user. I hope that Mastodon admins have a system where the more a user gets muted and/or blocked, the closer a look they take at that user.
Bullying is a whole other thing and should be reported, then blocked/muted. I would hope that the admins here agree that bullying is out. Let the bullies go back to Birdville or Trump Social.
I got an in-your-face porn picture in my federated feed the other day. Innocent server - very not innocent picture. I would definitely like it if I could block that server that allow porn, to be honest.
I guess I am asking what is bad enough for enough people that it should be on separate servers. i would say it should be something (bad?) people DO on here, not what people ARE. If you do post porn, do harass/bully, do post fake news - those are my suggestions.
I agree. It will be interesting to see where the line goes between letting individual users block/mute and where there will be a call for separate servers, so that users don't have to block each eg. porn poster individually.
On FB, admins can put users on suspension, giving them a chance to straighten out - and then they can block them from their group/page. Something similar should be doable here.
@MaryPot @kaydubatl Yes, those will be some of the issues that will need to be figured out. It’s not easy. It never has been.
Christine Hall@Deglassco So far that doesn't seemed to be happening here, but many of my white brothers and sisters do seem to like to build walled gardens around themselves that includes only people who either look like them or strive to look like them, so we'll see. Hopefully this will work out well.
Mel@Deglassco @BrideOfLinux it is happening here already. Check out @chanda ‘s toots. She’s been sharing her experiences here with horrible, racist harassment and threats. I’m sure she’s not the only one.
Dr. Cynthia Alease Smith💡
Woozle Hypertwin@Deglassco Instead of "maybe you're not a good fit" (I've even been told "if you don't like {bad behavior X}, then maybe the internet isn't right for you"), I'd like to instead say:
If anyone is penalized on other instances for punching up and hurting the delicate feelings of the powerful, you're welcome on my instance.
John Lusk@Deglassco
Right. #whitePeople like me need to be #antiRacist (even if imperfectly). Technology ain't the full solution. We're still the majority of the electorate (and this space) and we still have a lot of sway.
Lemme go on a bit. I'm an ignoramus when it comes to what's right in the details, so I choose to #trustBipocPeople. I believe y'all are more interested in justice than not (at least, until we get to some bright future when justice is universal, but that's a long way off).
@Deglassco
I hope my future actions don't make a liar out of me, but if they do: imperfect and doing my best (to do my best).
I hope my future actions don't make a liar out of me, but if they do: imperfect and doing my best (to do my best).
@tarheel And that’s what we all aspire to do: our best.
Postcards4CA@Deglassco have heard this all my life.
🅘🅢🅜🅐🄹@Deglassco "places like #Mastodon can’t incorporate #diversity & #inclusion." I am sorry but 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐨𝐧 is not one place! There's plenty of servers (instances) catering to many preferences. If an instance is becoming hostile to a group and moderators are not cooperating, then just jump ship to a welcoming instance. Mastodon allows people to block people and servers.
In the past when a server embraced discrimination and harassment they were blocked by most other instances.
@Deglassco #Mastodon is both a big federated community and small communities interconnected in different ways. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘢𝘶𝘵𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘪𝘵. I think this helps making Controversial topics more civil in favor to discussion & #growth and minimize the dangers of #echo-chamber.
Doohickie 
@sproid From what I've seen, instances that host hateful rhetoric are defederated from Mastodon (i.e., ostracized). I've seen several reports of instances that host and allow racist and/or fascist content and they are cut off from the federation.
@Doohickie Yes, that's what I was referring to. Thanks.
Ouchie Times@sproid @Deglassco I'm not convinced there's nothing they can do, but it it will take a different approach than the platforms we're used to. I'm brainstorming here, but maybe #Mastodon could update the #ActivityPub protocol to default to block instances deemed bad by a centralized #moderation team. Servers could opt out or #ban additional servers, but this would put a lot more weight behind bans. I'm sure smarter people with more time could come up something better, but there are options!
@OuchieTimes @Deglassco We must be careful about the paradox of tolerance. Banning should be a carefully thought decision. Otherwise we may diminish greatly the benefits of decentralization and federation. I don't want to imagine this as a 'Truth Social' but for the left. We should not become the very monster we despise.
I believe that engaging in conversation have a bigger potential for positive change and improvement. This doesn't apply for spammers and reoffending harassers.
I believe that engaging in conversation have a bigger potential for positive change and improvement. This doesn't apply for spammers and reoffending harassers.
Raptor@OuchieTimes @sproid @Deglassco the default option should be open, with the option to ban if they feel the content of a server doesn't fit.
defaulting to ban just means any new server is automatically blocked. essentially punished just for existing, then having to prove their worth.
how could an admin possibly keep up? and how would they be federated anyway? autoblock means there would be no possibility to connect. would every admin have to apply to the admin of every instance?
Teresa Lo@Deglassco
Ok, this is triggering. I cannot emphasize the systemic forces weaponizing language & social convention endured daily by POCs. "Not a good fit," "not professional," & similar coded language have great cost to those targeted.
Yes, diversified contributions in these spaces is essential for meaningful discourse.
AlaskanElise@Deglassco I agree so much with you. I hope Mastodon is better. I worry that it relies so much on volunteers given its recent growth. I guess we’ll see.
Marvin Thompson@Deglassco At least we have a chance to make it work. Nothing is ever perfect, and nothing ventured…you know how it goes. At least an attempt is being made to establish a space where an ideal is at least experimented with. Maybe we can continue to try and manifest.
Dan Tucker@Deglassco As a white male on a bumpy & never-ending journey to be an increasingly #AntiRacist #Ally I appreciate your willingness to bear witness. You shouldn't need to do that and certainly should not redline yourself in the Fediverse.
I hope that you find more privileged voices who listen, learn, affirm, amplify & ACT than those who strive for power via denigration.
And more importantly, #SpeakUpWhitePeople
Obi Ezeadi@Deglassco Hi from Colorado…Rutgers is my alum!
Lee
David A. Dutton@Deglassco why do you think they don’t support diversity and inclusion? I have yet to see anything from Mastodon not supporting diversity and inclusion.
@Deglassco that said, there are some conservative Mastodon servers out there, and I have put them on block. You can block an entire Mastodon server. I also know many Mastodon servers outright block the more conservative Mastodon servers. While you could make a black Mastodon server, you wouldn’t be able to prevent non-Black people from signing up. Anyone can fake a profile picture.
@Deglassco the thing is, this is a decentralized network with no central authority. So you can’t really call on Mastodon to really do anything universally. The best thing to do is join liberal Mastodon servers that do not allow a connection with conservative and racist ones. The main problem is there’s no really reporting function on any Macedon servers or any moderation.
@Deglassco correction. Some servers do have reporting and moderation. The one I am on does.
@ddutton Thank you for your reply. We’re all still learning.
Andrew Leahey@Deglassco Any such response ("Maybe you're not the right fit.") on this instance is grounds for an instant and permanent ban.
Jay Cheroske@Deglassco I understand it's not perfect here, that there are growing pains, etc. I keep in mind that here at least we have many kinds of recourse that were totally unavailable on the other site. There, we basically had to beg our betters to throw us some crumbs. Here, the distance between the users and the admins is very small.
honk honk I'm a truck *brrrrr*I keep hearing this - that Mastodon doesn't incorporate diversity and inclusion.
But the whole point of decentralization is to *avoid centralized control*. Every instance can do its own thing. Every community can have its own home.
The counter is always "but the instances could soft-block the marginalized communities!"
And... theoretically, sure. No one can point to an example of it happening, but it could. How's that compare to every single centralized platform in tech history?
@Deglassco Oh, wait, I can think of exactly one instance where the entire community as a whole has broadly speaking come together to push a marginalized community out of the Fediverse.
That would be the alt-right nazis.
And we're the ones who're havens for alt-right libertarians out to oppress the marginalized communities?
You can always defederate and instance block us. Of course to do that you'd need to be able to make your own instances and run them the way you want... oh. Wait.
GeekmomK@Deglassco @notafurry My takeaway at this point has been that yes, it’s a different model which means you use and interact with it differently. Yes, there’s a learning curve.
I think that it will be up to individuals and groups to determine for themselves whether the pros outweigh the cons.
—-
Pros: You *can* block known servers that are racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, transphobic.
Con: the same users can make accounts elsewhere and become problems, even for a small community, like sock accounts but it’s harder to block the same person when they hide across multiple servers every time they’re blocked.
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Pro: You can have a small safe community.
Con: That means you can end up becoming insulated and reinforcing harmful behaviors like micro aggressions because you don’t necessarily have a larger platform calling out the behavior.
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Pro: You can organize within your community more effectively using hashtags or creating focused instances.
Con: you don’t get the breadth of viability that a centralized platform and algorithm lead to that makes organizing online effective
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Pro: you can focus on socializing with people who share a common interest with you-no matter what that is
Con: Individuals have to be more purposeful diversifying their experience and seeking out people who bring a different lives experience.
—
I don’t have a better/worse for myself yet. I want to keep observing more and making my experience one that works for me. However I am also someone who *does* look for people who aren’t like me anyway so it’s not a new experience for me to *do* that. For some, it would be.
I like Mastodon. I like the decentralized nature. I’m neither averse to it nor completely committed to it. I just think it comes with a different set of pros/cons and the value judgment will be different for each person.
@GeekmomK @Deglassco I don't disagree with that, other than to say that none of those points are new to those of us who've been here a while; some of them we've experienced and grappled with and developed workable solutions for them (and some of those solutions are now broken with the influx of new users.)
That things must be re-evaluated is obvious. That things will change. New people and communities arriving from Twitter must be a part of those conversations.