Netgear just informed users of its older Orbi mesh routers that the gear had reached "end of lifecycle" -- another way to say "arbitrary end of security updates". Options? None really, except to buy new routers or eventually be hacked.

Do you own an EV? It'll work until the car maker says it won't.

@dangillmor Mine just started acting up. Going with a rental from our ISP.

@dangillmor "Do you own an EV? It'll work until the car maker says it won't."

How is that an EV issue?

@Salty Same principle. EVs are controlled by software, and manufacturer controls the software.

@dangillmor @Salty
Hence it’s really important that we pursue #RightsToRepair laws everywhere and #RightsToDisconnect as well. SO important… Not just about EVs, but everything sold in markets.

#EV #BEV #PHEV #OverTheAirUpdates #SoftwareAutonomy #PurchasingRights #RightsOfOwnership #AntiOligopoly #TechBrosScourge #GateKeepingTechnologyBans

@dangillmor @Salty ICE cars have the same problems these days. I think their control systems were just more mature, so it took longer for the rot to set in. EV's owners were just the crash test dummies for experiments on what the market would accept.

Slate pickup trucks are, or at least say they are, a move against the trend.

@TallSimon @dangillmor Precisely. It's not an "EV" problem. It's a "2020s car" problem. Cars have been computer networks on wheels for at least 20 years.

@dangillmor @Salty

Not unless they secure the modem in a place I can't disable it

@dangillmor @Salty so do petrol cars these days. In fact if anything is more so as there are no new petrol cars too cheap to bother including all that crap
@dangillmor @Salty The story of the reverse-engineering of the Fisker Ocean firmware is an encouraging point in all of this. The manufacturer disappeared, so the owners took things into their own hands.

https://electrek.co/2026/05/16/fisker-ocean-open-source-ev-story-after-bankruptcy/
Fisker went bankrupt and owners built open source car company from the ashes

After Fisker's bankruptcy left 11,000 Ocean EVs orphaned, a 4,000-member community reverse-engineered software, hacked CAN buses, and kept their cars alive.

Electrek

@Salty
Because EV are especially heavy on software and remote control.

ICE vehicles do exist in offline versions, even if they are rare in the versions sold in the past decade. Because the manufacturers consider data mining to be an income stream that belongs to them.
@dangillmor

@yacc143 @Salty @dangillmor EVs are much simpler on software and remote control. There's not a lot in an EV There are also low end vehicles where it's too cheap to afford to fill it with spycrap
@dangillmor EVs aren't inherently connected, just like any other car. The one I'm getting isn't.

@thomasbeagle @dangillmor

What make/model are you getting?

@thrashcardiom @dangillmor A Jaecoo J5 EV. It's a sub-brand of Chery.

@thomasbeagle @dangillmor EVs talk HTTP over HomeAV to DC chargers; new ones with ISO-15118 add HTTPS and certificate revocation.

Which means that EVs need firmware updates just to ensure long term compatibility with charger releases, else you end up like early MG5 models, which Tesla chargers blacklist as the network stack (possibly at the PHY) layer is incompatible.

Stick to AC charging with a car/charger protocol using the classic PWM signalling rather than ISO-15118 (required for all vehicle to grid setups) and you'll be fine
#evs

@dangillmor

FUCKING EXACTLY why I will never own one...
Or any other new vehicle since all brands are leaning heavily into the "feature subscription" business model...

FUCK. RIGHT. OFF.

🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤡🫏🖕🖕💩💩

@lupus_blackfur @dangillmor fwiw, our '23 MG 4 (Chinese-made EV) doesn't appear to suffer from any of that. I'm a mad-keen privacy person (I self-host *everything*(, but I'm not convinced Chinese EVs are worthy of the demonisation I'm hearing. The MG 4's been superb - no regrets at this stage - still 4 years to run on the full warranty.

@dangillmor
I’m beginning to think that ICE vehicle EV conversions are the way to go. Keep your favourite car and change the propulsion systems, then you truly own it all.

#EV #RightToRepair

@RaymondPierreL3 @dangillmor I suppose it depends how much you value "truly owning it". You pay way more than the cost of a brand new designed-from-the-ground-up EV to turn an old used car into a crap EV.

Like, don't get me wrong, when I am elected King I will forcibly brand right to repair laws right onto the foreheads of CEOs all around the world, and I built my own NAS from scratch. But I already had a crap EV when that was the only option and don't feel the need to go back.

On the other hand I'm not locked out of buying Chinese EVs here in NZ so I have much better choices than Americans do.

@Salty
All fair comments.
@RaymondPierreL3 Having said all that, if I ever win fuck-you money in Lotto (which will involve first entering Lotto) that's exactly what I'm going to do with a 1999 Subaru Impreza WRX STi in the classic metallic blue with gold mags.
@dangillmor for routers, look at https://openwrt.org
[OpenWrt Wiki] Welcome to the OpenWrt Project

@dangillmor which older Orbis? I didnt get any notices
@dangillmor
OpenWrt is the answer here. My last Netgear router (3-5 years ago) had plenty of ram and CPU to easily run openwrt but I chose to replace with ubiquity/unify gear instead of doing that because I wanted the flexibility and could afford the upgrade.
@dangillmor why would this be specific to EVs?
@dangillmor ICE cars have just as many computers as EVs do. Don't think that this is restricted to EVs.
@mikej @dangillmor Exactly. If you need a vehicle you control you're going to want a bicycle with simple parts. ICE vehicles ongoing support has been at the whims of the manufacturers for a very long time, if not since their creation. For most people public transportation is the best and easiest option.
@dangillmor Why drag EVs into this? Virtually all cars are rolling computers today
@dangillmor and thanks to the DMCA 1201, no one else is allowed to keep maintaining it
@dangillmor This is sadly very very common.
@dangillmor Why the limitation to EVs? Current ICE vehicles are also mandated to have IT systems.
@dangillmor we need a general removal of internet capability from things. machines werent meant to be online

@dangillmor
> Do you own an EV? It'll work until the car maker says it won't.

That software can be riddled with holes so badly, that I expect custom firmware.

Today you can check if you can remove the modem.

https://arkadiyt.com/2026/05/13/removing-the-modem-and-gps-from-my-rav4/

Removing the Modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 Hybrid

Modern cars are computers on wheels that send home nonstop telemetry about you. In this post I remove my 2024 RAV4 Hybrid's modem and GPS to prevent that :)

@dangillmor Hey, dan, I once subscribed to the Mercury News, so you should write me a 500 page essay on the economics of software updates in embedded space. Naturally, I won't pay for this, 'cause I did pay you once.
@dangillmor Although car manufacturers can’t get away with dangerous products, look at the recalls for 20 year old takata airbags. So they might be in for a rude awakening if they have vulnerabilities that are getting people killed or injured.
@dangillmor
That applies to any modern vehicle. Hell, nowadays you buy cars with everything the premium version boasts pre-installed and pay a monthly fee to keep individual things activated. We need the right to legally hack such bollock.