the ecoflow app is of course a janky pile of shit that doesn't work haha

You've gotta agree to the TERMS before you can use the ecoflow app and so there's a link to read the terms and it just straight-up 404's

There's a button with an icon that looks like it's supposed to show graphs and stuff, press it, black screen

Ya this is going local-only haha

It's like this with all the smart-home shit because, like, fundamentally, when you get right down to it, you can be good at making lightbulbs or good at making apps and you can't be both, so the app is a thing you use so that you can get the thing onto home assistant and that's the end of it. I've got two things in my house with an app that works, an Aranet CO2 monitor and an Emporia clamp-on current meter - the lightbulbs and this ecoflow battery and my water heater are all also supposed to have apps but they all either fail halfway or straight-up crash on tryna launch them. So we end up with home assistant, a trap for dads

I got a watts readout on my phone and charts and graphs and shit and one nice thing about that is MAN AM I HYPERAWARE OF THE WEATHER NOW

Like I'm not usually this aware of the weather when I'm not IN the weather y'know, I feel like A Part Of The World and that's kinda nice

Still only two pane up, also they're literally just propped up against the house lol, but it's nice and sunny and there's a hundred watts of free power flowing right now and it feels pretty damn good
I've had two panels up since Monday but it's been pissing down with rain since then, today's the first sunny day. Excited to see how much it peaks at later on

2026: 🦝 Every time something scary happens in politics I put up another solar panel

2027: 🦊 Dude why are you smiling so big, did you not just see the news today
🦝 I took some of those little panels out of calculators and I put them on my FUCKING TEETH

I'm like this with everything tbh. Whenever the world gets scary I gotta go nuts-and-bolts and do Repairman Things With My Hands which is why lately I've been most enjoying working on, like, bikes, 20-year-old ereaders, solar panels, all stuff that's either low-power or make-power

I've talked about this before on here but when I was teaching the new pinball techs how to not be scared of complicated machines I told them the most complex intimidating system you've ever seen is made up out of smaller and simpler systems that are connected together, and those subsystems are made out of yet smaller and simpler subsubsystems, and you don't fix an arcade you fix machines, and you don't fix machines you fix coils and switches and connectors, we work on the things that systems are made of because that's what we can reach with our hands and understand with our heads, and if all the little bits work how we want them to then the big thing has no choice but to work how we want it to

When you were a kid did you ever go to a science museum with a hand-crank generator and a buncha lightbulbs?

So how this works is you'd spin the crank and it'd rotate pretty freely y'know, you could feel magnets kinda resisting you a little bit but you'd take your hand off the crank and it'd carry on a bit, it wasn't hard to turn. And then you'd flip the light switch on and turn the crank again but this time you'd be trying to light up a little bulb, and it'd fight you. The same crank would give you hot biceps and a sweaty forehead. Some of these machines had more bulbs in parallel with switches between them and you could build up speed and have your mate flip a switch and you'd FEEL it! Not, like, understand the principles, not be able to rattle off Ohm's law or whatever, you'd really FEEL it, you'd KNOW it in your body

I think that was a good machine and we really need more of them. We need to feel the burn in our biceps so that we understand viscerally what electricity means, what power actually is, what really happens when we boil a kettle

Eighteen fucking grand those things cost by the way https://www.sciencekinetics.com/exhibits-catalog-home/kid-powered-generator
Kid-Powered Generator — Science Kinetics

The exhibit includes pairs of incandescent, florescent and LED bulbs. We even included a pair of kid-powered fans to keep them cool while comparing efficiency!

Science Kinetics
I got Numbers for yesterday btw, the first day when I had 2 panels up and it wasn't raining literally all day long, but I'm not posting them yet 'cause there's a clown with an old freezer and a watt meter who I'm waiting to hear from first
normal fucking fedi post that innit
Right he's shown me his now I'll show everyone mine, lemme grab a screenshot real quick

Alright so remember how I said these were 240 watt panels, well I misspoke, they're actually rated for 230 watts on the label.

Now the label, fucking LIES. If it says 230 watts on a panel what it means is, you'll get 230 watts under like Ideal Laboratory Conditions, noon on the solstice at the equator on a really clear day kinda thing, you're never gonna get that IRL. Plus, these panels are like 15 years old. So I figured, well, if I can get 150 or 180 out of them then I'm still quids-in for how cheap they were secondhand, and if I have two in series then a bit of shading on one is gonna pull down the other, so 300 watts would be a result. With that in mind, screenshot in the next post

Oh - also, before I show you this, these panels are leaned jankily and temporarily against the front wall of my house, I haven't built anything to angle them properly or even measured the angle okay so temper your expectations
393 watts! (edit: oops left an ID uncovered, it's not like a serial number or owt so it's probably nbd but just in case)

So panels that were optimistically rated for 230 watts 15 years ago are still spitting out about 200 watts without much effort at all!

This is FANTASTIC because even though panels hold up way better than I expected, **rich buggers still replace them** because you can get 400 or 500 watt panels now that take up the same room, meaning that the secondhand market is full of panels that are cheap AND good! It's a raccoon's paradise!

Another great thing about that screenshot, it wasn't a rainy day yesterday but it was a cloudy one, notice how it doesn't drop all the way to zero throughout the cloudy bit. Like it's still putting out enough to charge a laptop. Right now it's grey and miserable out and my two $45 secondhand panels are still kicking out 20 watts in the rain

Alright I've actually plugged stuff into the battery now

My amp, projector, kodi box, home assistant pi and basically everything in the big shelf downstairs are all sun-powered now

Knowing how electricity is normally generated makes these things even more magical

Like we all know that electricity is made by moving magnets around coils of wire or vice versa, and that's how I think of electricity, it's a big steel shaft in some really good bearings and at the end of that shaft is like a bunch of fins that get spun by steam or whatever or maybe it's like a portable generator with a 2-stroke engine to spin the shaft and there's all this metal moving and it all probably makes a terrible racket

These two old panels off a bloke on facebook marketplace are just sat quietly in front of my house and there's four blokes on exercise bikes' worth of electricity coming out of them. There's no noise at all and nothing's moving, there's nothing to oil, there's no fluids to replace, it's just, fucking, some Elvish thing that gathers mana when it's in nature. It's absolutely magical

I've got fourteen more panels to place 😅
I should've done this years ago

Watched a video from a bloke who's also dipping his toe into solar. He's not doing a battery, just these Ecoflow Stream microinverter things. I think this is what people mean when they talk about balcony solar.

Anyway how these work is there's no battery, you plug a solar panel (which puts out lowish voltage DC) into your hundred-quid microinverter box which bumps it up to mains AC voltage, and then there's a wire coming from that box and you just PLUG IT STRAIGHT INTO THE WALL. Like you literally plug it into a normal outlet and it just energizes the circuit that this outlet is part of, anything that's on that same circuit gets the juice from the panel. You don't need to turn the circuit off at the breaker or anything, all the smarts in the microinverter box just Figure It Out and when there's sun the circuit gets powered from the sun and when there's not it gets power from the mains like normal and you just leave it, you don't have to mess with it.

So like, what does this even do? Without a battery there's only benefit if you use the power while it's being made, you can't save it up for later. Well, the idea is you plug it into the same circuit that powers things that are on all the time, like your fridge or whatever. There's also a lot of benefit if you've got stuff like, I dunno, a dishwasher that you can load it up and close it before you go to bed and then tell it "Do the dishes in x hours" and time that to start at like noon tomorrow when there's lots of sun to power it for free.

So like, it's not as good as a battery obvs, but the good and interesting part about it is how CHEAP it is. A hundred quid! You'll have your money back in like two years, and then it'll keep sneaking beer tokens into your pocket for, hell, decades probably. And that's for like the fancy Ecoflow brand, I bet there's cheaper ones that're just as good.

Anyway then he said what he was powering with his panels and it's this big nerd cabinet full of networking gear and computer shite and it's like THREE HUNDRED WATTS 24/7 CONSTANT DRAW and I got all Northern like 'OW MUCH?!

I've got a nerd rack as well, it's got the router and a switch and TWO computers that are on all the time and an external hard drive that's constantly spinning and amp on standby and a projector and three game consoles and VR lighthouses and all their associated shitty tiny inefficient power adapters and its baseload is thirty watts.

ARM, mate, you want some Acorn RISC Machine in there, reduce the instruction set of yer computing, you'll save a packet

Anyway I added another panel, got three in series now, have a look at this graph and I'll explain and caption it in the next post
(explaining the previous post while I'm at my computer rather than on my phone) so there's three graphs there, first is volts coming off the panels, about 80v right now at 1230ish, all dippy and squirrelly up until about half nine. Second graph is watts off the panels and watts off the smart plug feeding the ecoflow, it draws like 30ish watts off the smart plug all night and all morning with occasional brief spikes up to 400ish watts about every hour. Third graph is the battery percentage on the ecoflow, it spends the morning until about 10am dipping slowly to 40% then jumping up to about 40.5% as it charges and those coincide with the draw from the smart plug, with the last dip around half nine and then it charges very slowly until about noon when it starts charging much faster.

Now, this isn't what I expected from adding a third panel to the series. When you put panels in series the volts add up, the amps stay the same, and since everything's gotta flow through Every Panel, if one panel gets some shade you're buggered. I meant to put three in parallel (put the third one out yesterday) but I couldn't make the leads quite reach, so I put them in series for now and ordered some more adapters etc.

I thought I'd be getting more like 600 watts for a little bit of the day and then partial shade on one panel would screw me, but there must be some kinda quirk of circumstance I didn't account for 'cause the opposite has happened - two panels in series didn't start producing much until about half eleven or noonish, but three in series started producing earlier in the day, enough earlier that the battery started charging much sooner than it has been off two panels.

I've got the battery set up so that it won't go below 20% or above 80% charge until I tell it Yo Emergency Time, just for the sake of the cells' longevity. But I've also got it set so that if it goes below 40% it pulls from the grid at 400 watts. The rack draws 30ish watts and it looks like it's mostly passing that straight through from the mains and occasionally taking a short 400 watt burst as it charges up enough to meet its own demand for the computery doodads wot makes it go.

The headscratcher here is in the two-panel days, the time period before the sun actually hit the panels, when it was light outside but not Direct Sun kinda thing, I'd get watts in the low 20's until like noon, and now I'm getting like 50 watts during that same time. Adding one extra panel shouldn't go from 20 to 50 - I'm not gonna complain, that's the difference between the battery discharging and it charging for several hours, but I am gonna say that the moral of the story is that messing around with maths and theory will only take you so far, you've gotta plug things in and fiddle with it physically before you know what to expect!

Also if you're wondering why it's passing 30w of power from the mains straight through to my load while it's also drinking 400 watts from the sun, while I was writing that last post the battery percentage crossed 45% and then it cut off the mains, so right now my rack is battery powered and the battery's still charging and the smart plug it's plugged into is at zero amps.

I expected 600 watts instead of 400 but it looks like I'm getting more, like, 450 watts but for much longer in the day and bonus trickle-charging in the morning

All these graphs are from home assistant and I've got a different thread about home assistant and why it's brilliant and also horrible and why you should absolutely not do it, check my stickies
This whole thing is absolutely fucking dadbait, like you won't get owt else done 'cause you'll be watching the volts and amps and nipping out to look at the sky all the time
Or maybe you're normal IDK, but you're reading this on fedi so I Don't Think So

Have we talked costs yet, have we added all this up yet

I don't think we have, not properly anyway, right. Two grand for the battery. That's the big "Oof" chunk but honestly, if I didn't have refrigerated meds to worry about, if I just wanted to Play With Solar And Save Money, I could've done it for way less. Here's my notes from when I was comparing the different all-in-one batteries (next post)

---this is taken STRAIGHT from my notes file in my personal wiki (it's dokuwiki-powered!) and I'm sure other people have done better comparisons, also this is only looking at fairly-big batteries, you can get smaller ones for WAY less money, so take this as it comes---

Growatt Infinity 2000:
* $650 for 2 kWh, so $325/kWh
* 2.4kW output
* 1200W solar charging: 12v to 150v
* 20ms UPS
* Inverter losses: 34 watt
* server fuckery, see https://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2023-11/03-growatt_and_home_assistant

Ecoflow Delta Pro 3:
* $2300 for 4kWh, so $575/kWh
* 4kW output
* 2600W solar charging via two ports: 30-150v to 15A (1600W), 11-60V to 20A (1000W)
* 10ms UPS
* Can do 240v
* Can be controlled locally via BLE: https://github.com/rabits/ha-ef-ble
* Inverter losses: 50 watt

Oupes Mega 2:
* $760 for 2kWh, so $380/kWh
* 2.5kW output
* 2100W solar input, 18-140V to 15A (manual suggests 6 240W panels at 148V OCV in series)

Oupes Guardian 6000:
* $1700 for 4.6kWh, so $369/kWh
* Can do 240V
* 3.6kW output
* 2100W solar charging at 18-130V/15A

Jackery Explorer 2000 V2:
* $800 for 2kWh, so $400/kWh
* 2.2kW output
* Only 400 watts solar input? Fuck off

Pecron E3600LFP
* $1050 for 3kWh, so $350/kWh
* 3.6kW output
* 2400W solar charging via 2 ports, both 32-150V to 20A
* 20ms UPS
* Inverter losses: 46W
* BUT: for $2200, nearly same price as the Delta Pro, get two of these and run 240v and have 6kWh of storage.
* BUT: quite loud!

Bluetti Elite 300
* $1100 for 3kWh, so $366/kWh
* 2.4kW output
* 1200W solar input, 12-60V panels
* 10ms UPS

Anker Solix F3800
* $2000 for 3.8kWh, so $526/kWh
* 6kW output
* Can do 240V

Anker Solix F3000
* $1400 for 3kWh, $466/kWh
* 2400W solar charging via two ports, high and low like on the Ecoflow: 11-165V@17A for 1600W and 11-60V@17A for 800W

Growatt & Home Assistant [splitbrain.org]

And the panels were $45 each off Facebook marketplace, I bought 16 of them 'cause I was figuring they'd be WAY more degraded than they are, but the whole solar-panels-degrading-a-lot thing turned out to be a another BIG FAT SMELLY LIE to go on the PILE of BIG FAT SMELLY LIES THAT PEOPLE TELL ABOUT SOLAR PANELS. $720. But dude threw in a bunch of 8-gauge wire as well.

I already had nice big crimpers that can do MC4's, but if you don't then maybe about $30 or $40. I've spent maybe a hundred bucks on this-and-that bits-and-bobs like connectors and conduit and drill bits and shit.

The next chunk of money will be in permanent mounting for these rather than leaning them jankily against the front wall of my house; some folk might buy pre-made racks but I plan to raccoon the fuck out of it with leftover chunks of timber that I've got lying around the place.

We're under three grand and it's Working, but you can absolutely start dipping your toes in for WELL under a grand if you don't currently have designs on doing The Whole Ass Entire House, and you know what, if you buy a tiny little battery and a single solar panel and just plug one thing into it then a) you're doing more than most folk and b) if you get Bit by the solar bug and change your mind about the whole-ass-entire-house thing, it's not like your one solar panel instantly becomes junk, you can incorporate it into whatever future plans

Two things to note about these all-in-one solar-generator doodads:

1. This is The Most Expensive Way to do it, because these boxes have charge controller, battery and inverter all in one convenient lump that you can lug around, go camping with, take to your friends when they've got a power outage, all that stuff. The true Way Of The Raccoon involves buying all those components separately and screwing them to a sheet of chipboard for like a third of the money.

2. If you look at the battery capacity you can get in, say, an Anker Solix C1000, they're $450 off Amazon, and you see only one kilowatt-hour and do Sad Face because that's half a grand and it won't even run a fridge for a full day, remember that you can also pull 600 watts into that battery from the sun as long as it's shining

Solar system update, wired my three panels in parallel now and plugged them into the low side and now it's going great.

The ecoflow's got two solar inputs (the exact specs are in that comparison post above) and on the low side it starts sniffing for power at a much lower voltage, which means I'm getting 50 watts at like 7:30! 30 watts is the tipping point where the battery starts charging a little bit rather than discharging so I'm happy with that. Understanding now that this is less about chasing the Peak Output High Score and more about how can I make power continuously throughout a big proportion of the day

Have I mentioned yet that this is cool as hell? It's cool as hell. By all means get into photovoltaics for environmental reasons or financial reasons or preparedness reasons or futureproofing reasons or flexibility reasons but a lot of folk get into it just as a hobby because it's legitimately Just Cool As Hell

Whenever I first get into a Thing I like posting my initial feelings because I know that a year from now I'll go "Huh, I was excited about 300 lousy little watts?" and everyone who's Into the Thing feels the same way because that initial Magic Feeling doesn't last, so IMPORTANT FEELINGS WRITTEN DOWN:

🦊 When it's cloudy it only does like 30 or 40 watts, grrr
🦝 WOW, I still get 30 or 40 watts when it's cloudy?! HONESTLY DID NOT EXPECT THAT, given that all the solar guys moan about cloudy days I figured I'd get zilch but 30 watts still runs two computers and my router all day long for free!

🦊 Hitting 600 watts peak isn't very much
🦝 Hell I was excited the first time I hit 100 watts, this is six times as exciting!

🦊 Those old panels are so inefficient for the space, only a couple hundred watts with like six by three feet, is it even worth bothering with
🦝 You know what generates even less power than that? A BLANK FUCKING WALL, which is what I had before I got these things

Got people from back home asking me

🦡 Dan why've you got a battery, why not just send the leccy back onto the grid and have a chippie tea and don't worry about it

And the answer is,

🦝 Here in America they don't bury the wires underground, they put them in the sky with all the trees and squirrels and that. When a tree falls on a wire, which happens approximately constantly, the wire goes down and we've no power until someone comes in the bucket lift truck and sorts it out -

🦡 We have power cuts in the UK as well,

🦝 No you don't. Not like this. You have power cuts like "Oh wow, is the power off?" and the Americans have power cuts like "🤷," it's Normal here, it's not a thing you remember happening unless it goes on for several days, you stop counting, if the wind gets up you go and shut down your computers etc because you EXPECT a power cut. Anyway last year we had big wind for 15 minutes and lost power for five days straight and do you know what the poor overworked bucket lift lads ran around doing?

🦝 With the wires?

🦝 You know where the company made them put the wires?

🦝 They put them BACK, in the SKY

Solar panels are actually good for your garden because if you put up even one then you can guarantee that it'll fucking piss down with rain all day long for the next month

Alright I've had two Actually Sunny days on my three (count 'em) old cheap secondhand solar panels that I raccooned off facebook marketplace and this coincided with hearing politicians argue about solar on the radio so I now have a Political Opinion About Solar Panels

It is this

Solar panels. Solar panels everywhere. Solar panels EVERYWHERE, on EVERY roof, Right The Fuck Now, every single doubt or worry I ever had about these things has been completely resolved just by holding panels in my hands and watching the power move silently into my battery to watch telly with tonight. House in cloudsville? Solar panels. House under the biggest densest tree in the world? Solar panels. Even in the shade they're still putting out power. Even fifteen years old they're still putting out power. Every worry I had was based on lies. My only regret is that I didn't start sooner. Solar panels everywhere right the fuck now.

Fossil fuel propagandists spent SO much money trying to get me to not use solar power and all it took to completely defeat them, like ALL the way No Reservations Left defeat them, no last little "well they might have had a point about -" I mean totally crushed, propaganda money wasted I Am Now Radicalized About The Sun, was one fucking sunny day with three $45 secondhand panels and a battery

I still can't get over the fact that solar panels are silent and still

Like I taught pinball repair classes on power supplies and transformers etc, when electrons are pumped along a wire it's 'cause there's a spinning magnet pumping them along

I'm here gawping at these completely still, completely silent Things just pumping electrons along all 🦝 "BUT WHERE'S THE SPINNING MAGNET!" like a time traveller looking at a Land Rover and shouting "WHERE, is the HORSE,"

@ifixcoinops I heard once that after William Gibson wrote Neuromancer, a friend offered to show him a computer, since he'd never actually seen one.

He looked at it a while and then asked “What's that noise?”

“That's the heads in the disk drive seeking back and forth.”

Gibson gaped. “It has *moving parts*? How Victorian!”

@ifixcoinops WHERE IS THE WATER STEAM ???
@ifixcoinops extending your analogy to nonsense: the sun is the fastest horse
@ifixcoinops (morpheus.jpg) what if I told you the microprocessors and the photovoltaic cells are cousins
@ifixcoinops Get some piezoelectric crystals and you can personally push the electrons around, no magnet or photon required.

@ifixcoinops there are lots of _really_ small spinning magnets inside the panel.

The incoming photon makes it spin faster. If it spins fast enough the electron flys out into the wire.

@ifixcoinops one guy in the audience at the Einstein Nobel awards was saying this
@ifixcoinops Wait till I tell you about that lead-acid battery…
@ifixcoinops Some are not entirely still - they can work a little better if you change their angle to the sun with the seasons. https://www.solar-frames.co.uk/
Cornish Rocker - an Adjustable Ground Mount by Solar Frames South West

A seasonally adjustable grounded mounted solar frame, the Cornish Rocker increases output by up to 40% in the Winter, is robustly built to withstand high winds and can be customised to your needs

@ifixcoinops yes, even wind turbines have a spinning magnet.
@ifixcoinops I would like to have competent installation with long term support options. all the places out here are shady as fuck and I don't trust them.
@sungo And they charge a ton too, hence my very-diy approach
@ifixcoinops yup. sadly, diy isn't really an option for me here in HOA land.

@ifixcoinops

You know how to really hurt them?

And reduce wars

Buy a EV.

@ifixcoinops This is what it’s about. For reference, we use about 11000kWh/year. Yeah winter ain’t as great but summer… 👌
@ifixcoinops you know what happens after those 30 years everyone is so scared about? what happens is they only put out about 80% of the power. that's it.

and another 30 years? it'll probably still work, just reduced more.

if it breaks? you grab a soldering iron and some wire and it's working almost as good 15 minutes later.

they don't stop working just because of some clouds, and they don't suddenly go bad one day. you make them and then they make electricity for a long time.

and if we put even a fraction of the amount of effort into recycling them as we do for, say, lead-acid batteries, we'd be able to recycle over 98% of the materials in any given solar panel once it does go bad. and if they're deployed at the scale they need to be, then someone will be figuring out how to do that
@linear @ifixcoinops i have heard that the capacity is mostly recoverable by using a little soap and a damp rag
@ifixcoinops This is why I want to find a small, all-in-one tie-in inverter and a good pair of panels to work with it. Then I’ll buy sets and give them as presents to friends. Once they see how easy it can be to get panels and plug them in, even if they’re just on the ground in their back yards as a proof of concept, I think many of them will start to be interested in more.

The world where everyone thinks they have to finance them for 30 years and they can only take what the solar companies will give them should die ASAP.

@AnachronistJohn @ifixcoinops wait, how* did anyone or anywhere wind up in a situation like that?

  • capitalism
@AnachronistJohn you can buy ready made "balcony solar" sets with 2 panels and a micro inverter in Lidl's and Aldi's specials isles. 😄
@ifixcoinops

@fedops @AnachronistJohn @ifixcoinops I should look into that, but will have to check with the agency with whom I am renting the apartment. Also, here in Austria, if I understand correctly, you need to have a licensed electrician do the installation. Which i would do anyway, since I have no mechanical skills at all.

edit: I see that the ones from Lidl do not require tools to install, only 2,7 kg per panel. 1-star reviews say the inverter goes bad quickly, though :(

@jdeisenberg it was a bit tongue in cheek. You're almost certainly better off sourcing decent parts individually. The mounting brackets are also available separately in many forms. The small inverters are always a bit of a gamble.
@AnachronistJohn @ifixcoinops
@fedops @AnachronistJohn @ifixcoinops I have found some fairly good deals in what my friend calls the “Aldi Aisle of Shame”.
@jdeisenberg @fedops @AnachronistJohn Aldi Gambler's Aisle is a special pleasure, it'll either be the deal of the century or absolute tat but man is it fun to roll the dice sometimes

@AnachronistJohn @ifixcoinops Hoymiles makes cheap small (400W ~ 70 EUR) MPPT inverters in weatherproof housings.I have a sample size of 1 and it works, people sometimes hit DUDs but I was betting on returning it if it doesn't work.

On top of the inverter(s) you'll need a DTU. The inverters speak a proprietary protocol on top of subGHz radio (868 or 915MHz depending on the region). DTU has wifi and the subGHz radio. OpenDTU is the way to go, the vendor's DTU is a piece of insecure cloud crap.

@ifixcoinops

Very good thread covering your journey. Congratulations👏

@ifixcoinops
❌ in the palm of my hand
✅ on my rooftop