Bryan Mitchell3d ago
nixCraft 🐧

Google CEO tries to tell University students to love AI. They tell him to BOO off.

It is good to see kids are saying no and fighting back. Do you know why? Because the future of bots, AI and robots doesn't offer any jobs to these young kids. They know greedy AI companies want to get rid of working class. It is simple as that.

For those who wish to read instead of the clip. See BBC page: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8pqd54qneo

#ai #llm

May 19 at 2:37pmWeb
Show threadnixCraft 🐧3d ago
AI leaders like him and their AI companies are highly speculative and profit from that speculation in billions each yeer, while ordinary people like us and the kids in this video who boo and make similar speculations are called alarmists or Luddites.
Show threadlemgandi3d ago

@nixCraft

When the crash comes they'll still be billionaires. The rest of us, well . . .

Show threadAtrapado ⬆️🥐🥐🥐3d ago
@nixCraft we have to terminate rich before they terminate us.
Show threaddatatofu3d ago

@nixCraft Equivocation fallacy detected.

> In finance, an asset is "speculative" if its value is based on potential future price movements rather than current cash flow or intrinsic utility.

> In a debate about AI or technology, "speculative" refers to conjecture or reasoning based on hypothetical scenarios that have not happened and have no data to support them yet.

An investment perspective and a Luddite perspective are not the same

Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj @nixCraft

> value is based on potential future price movements rather than current cash flow or intrinsic utility.

Pretty much fits a lot of concerns about AI too. Investments into it are mostly based on idea that it will soon become profitable to the point of badly damaging companies who didn't invest into it. While currently, AI is too costly to be profitable and too unreliable and produces low quality output to talk about intrinsic utility.

So called Luddites don't care much about whether this investment will fail or not, but they are savvy enough to see why this investment happens and call it speculative in business sense too.
Show threaddatatofu3d ago

@tiredbun @nixCraft so... is this an attempt to justify the fallacy or are you making a new one? I can not tell.

Using one to justify the other is like saying you should not buy a lottery ticket (financial speculation) because you are afraid of ghosts (theoretical speculation).

Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj @nixCraft

I just think that trying to make distinction is useless, because the way AI companies earn money is with more investments because of overvalued investments and promises, which is another form of investment speculation, and the way people suffer for it isn't any speculation at all. When people say value of AI companies is speculative, they mean in that sense too.
Show threaddatatofu3d ago
@tiredbun @nixCraft so... you were in fact defending the equivocation fallacy and have decided that if you cry hard enough somebody will say that you are correct? To bring it back into the realm of logic, the DOT com bubble was also overinflated. Therefore, according to your rules, the internet is speculative.
Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj @nixCraft

Something having or not having speculative or overinflated value doesn't explicitly mean it will forever be that way. Internet is irrelevant here.

Though I recognise I (especially in my first reply, in which I noted that definition you gave still seems to fit AI in my opinion) and nixcraft may be technically wrong for using a specific term instead of another it doesn't exactly mean much for the actual point, is what I want to say.
Show threaddatatofu3d ago

@tiredbun @nixCraft The difference between us is simple: I build the models, so I define them by what they do. You dislike the tech, so you define it by how it feels.

​Admitting you are "technically wrong" while claiming it "doesn't matter" is just a long-winded way of saying you are arguing from emotion. Next time you see a "ghost" in the machine, remember the math you could not be arsed to learn.

​Good luck with the content warnings

Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj @nixCraft

My point may have also been hard to follow so:

- My first reply - I question if there even is a fallacy because your definition still fits. Maybe a stretch, which is I now agree after thinking.
- Other replies, after I saw you say that original point is a fallacy - I say that even if term is incorrect or confusing with "investments" mentioned beside it, the point still stands that "AI" is overvalued and actively harmful.

About me "disliking tech" - I like tech in general, I spend a lot of my time, productive or hobby, on IT admin and programmer things. I even liked so called AI (and still like many parts of machine learning that actually bemefit society, be that computer vision or ML-based OCR), until I saw how much it negatively impacted me and those around me. You sound quite condencing trying to say things I say doesn't matter because I am "emotional" while you actually work on whatever sort of machine learning or statistical models that you equate with what companies call AI nowadays.

About CWs - screw you for removing them and then mocking me about it, actually, very petty and unnecessary. I have them because this a divisive topic that my followers may not want to read about when they are fed up about it.
Show threaddatatofu3d ago

@tiredbun @nixCraft
> this entire thread

> "I spend a lot of my time, productive or hobby, on IT admin and programmer things"

Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj @nixCraft

How could you tell my second hobby was arguing with idiots on the internets?  

Though you seem to have free time for that too. I don't get what is so funny to you.
Show threadTired Bunny  3d ago
@drmorrisj

My idea is, phrasing it like your example - you should not invest into company that is based on promises of ghosts. So called luddites are more concerned with that company is killing people, but they also will be angry that promised ghosts are theoretical speculation, and that investors are going in because of promises and blankets made to look like ghosts.

If that doesn't exactly fit a specific domain-specific definition of speculation and you technically wrong for calling investitions speculative, that doesn't really matter for the point. Maybe not ideal phrasing on the side of @nixCraft, but it's not really a fallacy.
Show threadZephyrXero3d ago
@nixCraft Luddites would actually be correct if we're going off who they actually were rather than the colloquial derogatory definition. Luddites suffered one of the worst smear campaigns in history and the industrialists won the info war. They were not anti-technology and understood it well, but they didn't like how it was being leveraged to destroy their communities and labor power. They were basically just socialists
Show threadB05H3d ago
@nixCraft to the gallows with thee, draw and quarter them all in the streets like the villians they have decided to become.
Show threadHanno Rein3d ago
@nixCraft Find a way to say yes. No.
Show threadmaxotaf3d ago
@hannorein CEOs with that sociopathic mindset where they can't comprehend the world telling them no
Show threadFinitum3d ago
@maxotaf @hannorein pretty apt considering this dude has who knows how many NDAs he's had women sign to get paid out for his inability to control his hands.
Guy with an orgy shower in one of his mansions has some thoughts on consent. Yikes. At least he's consistent.
Show threadwrosecrans3d ago
@maxotaf @hannorein "AI is inevitable" is our generation's "let them eat cake."
Show threadMostlyTato3d ago
@hannorein @nixCraft
"Find a way to say yes."
In other words, your consent is irrelevant, you will comply.
Show threadMike @ Misaligned Markets3d ago
@MostlyTato @hannorein @nixCraft Consistent for Eric “no IP laws for me” Schmidt who told another group of students that copyright doesn't matter if you have good lawyers. https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220658/google-eric-schmidt-stanford-talk-ai-startups-openai
Ex-Google CEO says successful AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to ‘clean up the mess’

“But if nobody uses your product, it doesn’t matter that you stole all the content,” former Google CEO Eric Schmidt said during a talk at Stanford that has been pulled offline.

The Verge
Show threadwrosecrans3d ago
@MostlyTato @hannorein @nixCraft Basically every company's user "consent" dialogue boxes are "Yes" or "Not yet, but ask again soon." And I think as a society we aren't adequately horrified by the culture that pushes that out with zero shame.
Show threadChristian Rickert3d ago

@nixCraft

The promotion of unsustainable novel technologies and the destruction of the environment go hand in hand.

It is his generation that is too old to care about the future of society or the planet: And because they measure their success in amount of money, there's no reason for them to reflect on their flawed logic.

Show threadPeter H. Fröhlich3d ago
@christianrickert Just calling you on your ageist bullshit, that's all.
Show threadeestileib (she/hers)3d ago

@phf @christianrickert

My mother voted for Trump and explicitly told me "we know everything is going to collapse we just hope we're dead before it happens".

She claims to love her grandchildren.

Show threadChristian Rickert3d ago

@eestileib @phf

there’s definitely some cognitive dissonance at work - it’s sad to watch that happen

Show threadChristian Rickert3d ago
@phf replace generation of age (biological) with generation of upbringing (mindset) - that should help you understand my point
Show threadPeter H. Fröhlich3d ago
@christianrickert Still not true BUT you know, you do you.
Show thread★ Normie ★3d ago

@nixCraft he was talking about how Google should replace Government in 2016

how Google Pay eliminates the need for cash money and you can trust him and his guys to manage all financial transactions. or failing that have a duopoly with Apple. what freedom!

how only Big Tech can save The West, by becoming a Techno Feudal Lords, parasites ruling us

so am I shocked he's all in on AI? no

I'm shocked people haven't figured out he's awful already

Show threadhrast3d ago
@nixCraft pure agony of a soul
Show threadmeh 3d ago
@nixCraft I love that they scream no when he’s saying “let me give you a piece of advice”. Get the fuck outta here, man!
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉3d ago
@nixCraft We are all Luddites now.
Show threadRolf Blijleven 🔻3d ago

@ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft

There's an interesting thing I learned about Luddites recently. They weren't against the machinery per se.

They just wanted better working & living conditions and there was no central point where they could make that statement and be heard. So out of necessity, they turned to a decentral target. The machines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite#Historical_precedents

Now then. What can we do to render big tech Ai useless for all to see?

Luddite - Wikipedia

Show threadHumanBeing3d ago
@nixCraft Boooooooo. Not everyone is fooled by alpha and how invasive it is. I loathed it from the moment it hit the internet. I remember where I was standing and who told me. I was aghast and it continues to this day.
Show threadVinnie (any)3d ago
@nixCraft fascist scum gets booed. 👌
Show threadFather Hardstone3d ago
@nixCraft Next time around, EGG HIM !!
Show threadAlexa Devreux-Swift3d ago

@nixCraft

Talk about a complete innability to read the room!

Show threadThe Anhedonic Hedonist3d ago

@alexadeswift @nixCraft

-Not 'inability to read the room'

Too full of hubris to care..

Show threadFiona Bianchi3d ago
@nixCraft
Millionaire CEOs should just fuck off as a general rule. We really need to eliminate the issue of vast amounts of wealth accumulating in a few individuals
Show threadThe Anhedonic Hedonist3d ago

@nixCraft Yes, we do know what the 'contours of that transiition' will look like-

*Gestures wildly about*

Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉3d ago

@nixCraft Sadly I saved the vid without bookmarking the post (doh!) so can't give any detail about when or where this was filmed, or who the speaker is, but this one is also good.

The look of total surprise from someone entirely out-of-touch with the views of those outside her tech bubble, is satisfying.

Show threadLazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈3d ago

@ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft thinking about that Romanian dictator at the fall of Communism who had the whole crowd before him turn and he just didn't know what to do, the impudence paralysed him.

Didn't they finish him off in the end?

Show threadTrebach3d ago
@Lazarou @ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft Yup, Nicolae Ceaușescu. They executed him in 1989. His former palace is so large that the Romanian Parliament and a museum is inside with quite a bit of room left over
Show threadBob K Mertz 3d ago
@ApostateEnglishman
IIRC it was commencement at UCF
@nixCraft
Show threadJean-Baptiste Fidélia3d ago
@ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft Her and me both are confused because it seems to me that this crowd is cheering and smiling but maybe it's just me and this is how booing looks like over there...
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉3d ago
@jeantranscene @nixCraft It is an overwhelmingly negative response.
Show threadJean-Baptiste Fidélia3d ago
@ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft If you say so. That's not what I remember strong disagreement look like back in the days I was a student.
Show threadFurbland's Very Cool Account™3d ago
@jeantranscene @ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft they’re booing at mention of AI, and then cheering at mention of AI not being a thing
Show threadJean-Baptiste Fidélia3d ago
@GroupNebula563 @ApostateEnglishman @nixCraft You're probably right but it feels off to me. You could tell me they're actually cheering I would accept that too.
Show threadNeil Moffatt3d ago

@nixCraft They have been bombarded with such make divisive stuff that they have mostly wised up. Many abandon 'social media' because it no social media but commandeered to serve the likes of Google.

Big business is psychopathic in nature. Never forget that - not least that it is in the constitution of Corporations that they must NOT care about the environment. Just grow and increase profit and shareholder dividends.

EVIL constitution.

Show threadtaxet3d ago
@nixCraft this brings me so much joy to see the new generation of people stuffing it to the fuckers trying to kill us all.
Show threadWill3d ago

@nixCraft

Yeah, I'll find a way (actually, numerous ways) to say "fuck off!"

Show threadMr. Scam Likely3d ago

@nixCraft And also, ethical and moral issues aside, AI sucks for academic purposes.

It doesn't understand, it can't come up with novel ideas, and its always just guessing. Even if its useful for categorizing/screening stuff, real science requires a bunch of extra work to justify your methodology. Every study using AI has to assess the accuracy of the AI for that purpose, and if the AI turns out to have a weird blind spot you missed it invalidates your research.

Show threadhumourmetom3d ago
@nixCraft "We will bury you." Google CEO
Show threadRaphael3d ago

@nixCraft The kids are alright.

"If you don't care about science, that's okay", he says, on _that_ stage. Phaw.

Show threadTedje3d ago
@nixCraft big tech has been destroying our thinking power. Now it is selling it back to us. Glad they don’t go for it.
Show threadEpsi3d ago
@nixCraft dude looks like he likes the boos