adb21h ago

I am very sorry for you to need to cope with this:

the best option for private chatting TODAY when it comes to #security, usability/user-friendly, #resilience, #digitalindependence and #freedom is #DeltaChat a chat app that uses #SMTP + #IMAP at its backbone, not your favorite "perfect" chat protocol, you don't need new better protocols, you need tools that actually work for the people

#xmpp #matrix #simplex #signal

Show threadpixelschubsi

@adbenitez It's easy to say that one doesn't need better protocols after those better protocols have become so ubiquitous that you don't even realize how you're using them yourself.

Apple APNS and Google FCM use #XMPP technology to deliver push messages instantly. All the other messengers listed (#Signal, #Element, #DeltaChat) thus use XMPP technology. Everyone uses XMPP, but when it is about marketing, suddenly XMPP is not necessary.

10:00pmWeb
Show threadDelta Chat3h ago
@pixelschubsi @adbenitez new protocols are fine. The point may rather be that contrary to popular nerd belief protocols are only one part of an effort. What distinguishes #deltachat from #xmpp is that one is a cross-platform mass-user focused app with a consistent UX across the platforms and using standards under the hood, while the other is a set of specs with many different implementations and UX approaches on the various platforms, and sometimes tenuous compatibility between them.
Show threadbytes4life2h ago
@delta @pixelschubsi @adbenitez
Can you talk about Deltachat federation? Can anyone run a Deltachat server? What are the requirements? Implies it any kind of administrative procedure?
Show threadDelta Chat1h ago
@bytes4life @pixelschubsi @adbenitez anyone can run a relay, permission-free. see buttom of the public list:
https://chatmail.at/relays
Chatmail: Relays

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!

Show thread𝐽𝑜ℎ𝑎𝑛2h ago

@delta @pixelschubsi @adbenitez

We don't need #xmpp with "consistent user interfaces" (for the user) – that's from #Psi+ to #Movim. Nothing in common, except what's under the hood.

Show threadpixelschubsi1h ago
@johan @delta @adbenitez XMPP is a protocol, not a messenger. A protocol doesn't have UX, let alone consistent. Saying Psi+ and Movim don't have consistent UX is as helpful as saying DeltaChat and Thunderbird don't have consistent UX.
Show threadpixelschubsi2h ago

@delta @adbenitez Yes DeltaChat is a messenger and XMPP is a protocol.

Why is the advertising towards DeltaChat so obsessed with protocols? Just say "DeltaChat is better than Conversations, because it provides a consistent UX across platforms including iOS." This would render your point much easier to understand for everyone and wouldn't require you to badmouth protocols you're relying on yourself.

Show threadDelta Chat2h ago
@pixelschubsi what do you mean with "delta chat advertising obsessed with protocol"? https://delta.chat/en/ and appstore description barely mention any protocol?
Delta Chat: Delta Chat, decentralized secure messenger

Delta Chat is a decentralized and secure messenger app 💬 Reliable instant messaging with multi-profile and multi-device support ⚡️ Sign up to secure and interoperable chatmail relays 🥳 Interactive ...

Show threadpixelschubsi1h ago

@delta I mean for example the post I was originally replying to. Or your reply to my reply literally having "protocols" as the second word.

My post was about protocols, because it was a reply to one that was about protocols. When you noticed how the advertising based on protocols gets debunked, you quickly shift to something else.

I'm not saying DeltaChat is bad. Just get your marketing sorted and focus on UX rather than standards, protocols or encryption.

Show threadDelta Chat1h ago
@pixelschubsi We responded to the top post as much as to yours, and actually seem to agree that when it comes to mass usage, users don't care about protocols much. Which doesn't mean they are unimportant, neither.
Show threadpixelschubsi1h ago
@adbenitez @delta Sure, so let's stop framing DeltaChat as a "chat app that uses #SMTP + #IMAP at its backbone". It's either just "chat app" or "chat app that uses a bunch of standard protocols (incl. SMTP, IMAP, OpenPGP, MIME, XMPP, HTTP, TLS), proprietary protocols and proprietary extensions to standard protocols". The latter doesn't have the markting ring to it, so maybe just stick with "chat app" and stop talking about protocols at all.
Show threadpixelschubsi1h ago
@adbenitez @delta If you really want to talk about protocols, you can of course also frame it as the "chat app that uses our proprietary chatmail protocol" ;)
Show threadDebacle45m ago

@delta @pixelschubsi @adbenitez

I absolutely agree, that "a cross-platform mass-user focused app with a consistent UX across the platforms" is missing desperately in the #Jabber/#XMPP ecosystem.

There are really good clients for Jabber, but none of them fits above description.

AFAIK, both #Snikket/#Borogove by @snikket_im and #Fluux by @ProcessOne try to close that gap.

Still, I prefer the approach of Delta building on #Rust and #Tauri, instead of #Haxe or #Typescript. #YKINMKBYKIOK.

Show threadpixelschubsi41m ago
@delta @adbenitez consistent UX, except when not.