“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”

– Naomi Shulman

@aral seen in this light, I am a TOTAL asshole.
@aral They are in the US now. They act like ostriches. They hide their head under the sand pretending things are OK.
@HolgerFiallo @aral Have a brother like this. When I'm in the kitchen watching some indie political news, he smokes weed then hides upstairs until I finish my meal & leave.
@riderkicker This is why the so call flower power was a bunch of poopoop. Anyone who does not object to cruelty or those who denied holocausts or hate is human sheep.

@aral there's a great poem (“fascist nations”) by wiktor woroszylski, himself a polish jew, and it starts like this:

Shortly after the war of 1914-1918 the first fascist nations
emerged in Europe In those nations
the sun rose and set at the usual time shedding light
on homestead roofs and hills' green slopes Cattle
mooed gently in cowsheds Mothers kissed
their children's foreheads to wake them at dawn¹

(he wrote it in 1969, a year after the nominally socialist regime of people's republic of poland started an antisemitic and nationalist campaign that forced many members of the polish jewish community – already struggling after being almost entirely wiped out during ww2 – into exile)

¹ translation by stanisław barańczak and clare cavanagh

@mawhrin @aral Thank you for posting this. We’ve got to stay awake.
@aral I still can't help thinking that if the part of the German people who literally only joined out of fear had instead stood up against the Nazi party, right there and then and in Germany, when the events first happened... What turned into World War 2 could have been cut off at just "The German Civil War"... I mean there's a chance, right?

@Violette_Valentine @aral At that time, when the Nazis first came to power in 1933, people were terrified of an imminent Bolshevik Revolution and the horrors that would follow.

When the Nazis improbably won out, the immediate reaction was, Whew, we dodged a bullet there!

By the time people realized that the wrong people were now in charge, there was no means of organized resistance available.

@aral Count me as that pain in the ass resister next door.
@aral It's a great quote in a way, but lately I don't know if people can tell who the bad guys are anymore. A lot of the left is worshipping the Russians and siding with nazis. The communists are also siding with nazis. I don't know if we have people with enough information to resist. Resisters too are wanting authoritarian governments.

@wasootch

> I don't know if we have people with enough information to resist. Resisters too are wanting authoritarian governments.

This is a good point and I think this issue was there with the Nazis. Disinformation has been a tool of the government trade for a long time and people didn't 'look the other way' for no reason. Just as the absolute majority of us do squat against oil companies burning down the world.

Why is that? What do we believe in that makes us stay at home, paying taxes for their subsidies?

This is part of the job of the resistance - to invest time disentangling the truth, and help people access accurate information.

@aral

@andymouse @aral And to be fair, this is what I've been seeing on places like the former Twitter. I do hope that real resisters in the world are more informed. But after being an ally to Ukraine, I can definitely say that nazis have infiltrated leftists. Leftists would do with understanding that Russia & China are closer to fascism now than they are to communism. Not that I think communism is a good system. Just that they are not that no matter what leftists want to believe.

@wasootch
Who / what do you see as the issue here? Aside from some misguided tankies my lived experience doesn't really line up with what you're saying here*.

*unless you're referring to largely ignoring and refusing to undertake voluntary precautions to mitigate the still very much ongoing pandemic in which case yes, that pretty much seems like a huge universal blind spot across all political lines right now.

@aral

@mnemonicoverload @aral Try being strongly pro-Ukraine for a while and you'll definitely see it. Not here really although there are a few tankies from time to time that have harassed me. But on other platforms the pro-Russia group is the weirdest group I've ever experienced. And I see a lot of admiration of authoritarians in the left. Part of it is trying to understand if these people are real or troll farm accounts.
@mnemonicoverload @aral I have spoken now with a lot of them and many do seem quite real. It's strange to me. When leftists are joining up with racists and nazis I think they've lost the plot entirely.
@aral @wasootch Ah, that's a fair point honestly. A lot of people don't seem to have a very nuanced understanding of the Ukraine situation in general. Many don't seem to differentiate between support for the Ukrainian people and support for the Ukrainian government. I guess my perspective is probably a bit different as a supporter of RevDia and Revolutionary Action in Belarus for over a decade. In the spaces I'm active in there wasn't really a debate of "Ukraine bad" vs "Russia bad", it was more practical discussions about how to provide material support to Anarchists in the region regardless of which borders they were operating within.
@wasootch @mnemonicoverload @aral I have experienced the same issue but in reverse I suppose. Most people who mention ukraine, at least localized in my scandinavian country, are often nationalists. They are not leftists or progressives, even on surface level. It gets even worse when you ask the same people if they think palestinians deserve soverignty and to not be bombed. I have not really experienced pro-palestinians being anti-ukraine.
@wasootch @mnemonicoverload @aral I have to mention that I know that the vast majority of the nationalists subjects here obviously do not care about ukraine at all (unlike you), and only fear for their own nation, with their idea of russia being entirely based on cold war era vibes. Being pro-ukraine should not be considered fascist at all. You just also have to be consistent in your support of human rights if you want to be taken seriously.
@wasootch @mnemonicoverload @aral there is something to be said, maybe, about how leftists *should* be more vocal in their support of ukraine, but I’m not sure what that looks like when russia is already embargoed. This, while our own nations are constantly supplying Israel with weapons that are consistently used to level hospitals, and make it illegal to support the palestinian people in the streets. And just to look like we are bipartisan with nazis?
@wasootch @aral horseshoe theory of politics and all. Tankies seem like mirror universe republicans
@chrisashtear @aral I actually often find they say things that make them much closer to nazis.
@aral I feel compelled to boost this every time I see it because my family thought we could solve our problems by not talking about politics.

@aral

Germans today have a saying, "If ten people are sitting at a table and a Nazi sits down with them, how many Nazis are at the table? Eleven."

@aral
White supremacy in the Deep South of the US has always been built upon gentility.

Decorum enables rhetorical erasure of violence from public conversation.

@aral 🤔 you need not always express your opinions

The rhetoric sounds dramatic but....

@aral

I think people are taught to be nice instead of kind. Nice is not making waves or avoiding offending nazis. Kind is standing up to nazis and protecting those they target.

@aral

And this is why our Davids — the “serious” columnists who really never say anything useful, but do a lot of bland both-sides damage — penned columns about how people lack niceness and we need to restore niceness.

We need lovely people who will go along nicely with the fascists.

@aral

I want to give this to my boss So Badly. She's exactly like this & I just get So Tired of the pretense

@aral There's a really good old Canadian documentary called Hidden Heroes about survivors of the Holocaust in the Netherlands who go back and meet the people who hid and sheltered them. The stories of resistance are incredibly brutal - far from the sanitized stuff we see in the movies. Really eye-opening.
Part One: How Nice, Normal People Made The Holocaust Possible - Behind the Bastards | iHeart

<p>Robert is joined by Sofiya Alexandra to discuss the, 'Little Nazis.'</p><p><strong>FOOTNOTES:</strong></p><ol> <li><a href='https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-8497.1969.tb00946.x'>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-8497.1969.tb00946.x</a></li> <li><a href='https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/bstewart/files/ordinaryvoting.pdf%C2%A0%C2%A0'>https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/bstewart/files/ordinaryvoting.pdf  </a></li> <li><a href='https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/i-was-a-nazi-and-heres-why%C2%A0'>https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/i-was-a-nazi-and-heres-why </a></li> <li><a href='https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/%C2%A0'>https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ </a></li> <li><a href='https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/everyday-murder-nazi-atrocities-committed-by-ordinary-people-a-542245.html%C2%A0'>https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/everyday-murder-nazi-atrocities-committed-by-ordinary-people-a-542245.html </a></li> <li><a href='https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-fuehrer-myth-how-hitler-won-over-the-german-people-a-531909.html%C2%A0'>https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-fuehrer-myth-how-hitler-won-over-the-german-people-a-531909.html </a></li> <li><a href='https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-horst-wessel-song%C2%A0'>https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-horst-wessel-song </a></li> <li><a href='https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/aryanization%C2%A0'>https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/aryanization </a></li> <li><a href='https://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928'>https://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928</a></li> <li><a href='https://www.amazon.com/Black-Earth-Holocaust-History-Warning/dp/1101903473/ref=sr_1_1dchild=1&keywords=black+earth&qid=1602558619&s=books&sr=1-1'>https://www.amazon.com/Black-Earth-Holocaust-History-Warning/dp/1101903473/ref=sr_1_1dchild=1&keywords=black+earth&qid=1602558619&s=books&sr=1-1</a></li> </ol><p><br></p><p><br></p><p> </p> Learn more about your ad-choices at <a href='https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com'>https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com</a><p>See <a href='https://omnystudio.com/listener'>omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p>

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@RushGirl @aral More like 60 million died the last time a major power surrendered itself to white Christian nationalists because voters didn’t do the right thing.

@JBShakerman @aral

That's true, it's always been an undercount by many times the actual number.

Gypsies, Romas, gays, POWs, people with physical or mental issues, all were killed, not just Jews.

@RushGirl @aral

F*** Russian fascists and their colonialism, imperialism, nationalism, and exceptionalism!

Last time Europe failed to stop a terror regime and prevent a genocidal war was on 24th of February 2022.

@aral It's true in hindsight and a decent rule of thumb. However, one never really knows the capabilities of other people, or even one's own, until facing a situation where action is critical. Words and appearances can be deceiving.

Allowing shit to escalate to the critical point (people being dragged away) is another story, but even then, weighing risk and success is very difficult. Throwing livelihood away over one thing may result in being unable to help with another. A cruel reality of choices. Though on the other hand, a sacrifice is never judged by its impact.

The climate appeasers are leading us towards catastrophe

In 1940, George Orwell famously lambasted those who refused to prepare for the Second World War. Today we face a different war—on the climate crisis—a...

@aral It may not be that easy to define, nice, good or bad people. Is it relative to intention, to impact on society ? If nice people were the one not acting, who were the one dragging away ? Is their some study on who were the peopke resisting before they do ? But I agree that people with a bad impact on society in one context could have a good impact in another context. No good or bad, just people lucky to be more adapted to the society they live in.
@aral Actually, resisters of injustice and exploitation are usually nice people - just not to those who look the other way to whom they are also a nuisance/interfering/…. Think @juststop_oil- they’re the most wonderfully nice people - thoughtful, considerate, non-violent. They are, however, disruptive of “business as usual” and all that entails: #crimeagainsthumanity

@aral
At the bottom of my every email:

All that is needed for
the triumph of evil
is for good people to do
nothing and stay silent.
- Edmund Burke -
(( paraphrased ))

@aral I'm among them now. They're not just 'still around', they're the majority. They're everywhere.
@aral Pre-War Churchill warned of the danger of the “docile German people”. He was using the word in its denotation — easily led.

@aral

That's very insightful. I'm going to 'borrow' Naomi's words as they align with my thinking about what those types of "nice" people are doing about climate change (nothing much)

@aral I have observed this and am observing it now. Is it worth pointing this out to 50/50, middle of the roaders who just live everyday putting one foot in front of the other?
@aral echoes of people who embody Toxic Positivity.
@aral It may be notable that Naomi Shulman's source for that are the stories her mother told her who was born in Munich in 1934 according to Shulman. So by the end of the German Nazi regime her mother was 11 years old - and if other kids of that age are any indication - probably not the best judge of people's character in a totalitarian regime.
https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2016/11/17/the-post-election-case-for-speaking-out-naomi-shulman
No Time To Be Nice: Now Is Not The Moment To Remain Silent

Naomi Shulman makes the post-election case for speaking out.

I personally lived through the follow-up German totalitarian regime until I was 12. In my experience AMBITIOUS people were a much bigger problem for resisters than unpolitical nice people. Then again I was only 12 years old, so what do I know. Well I'm closer than Naomi Shulman and you anyway, who are using a questionable secondhand story to frame American politics. But Trump isn't Hitler, Republicans aren't Nazis and you're not in the Nazi-resistance.

EDIT: @aral blocked me for this post