Did you know that neurotypical folks just can not think about anything for a period of time? Yeah, me neither.

#Autism and #ADHD lead to less synaptic pruning which results in a higher density of synaptic connections. This leads to brain hyperconnectivity, which is the cause of sensory overload and reduced filtering of irrelevant stimuli. It is as well a reason for difficulties with executive functions.

I wish I sometimes just could NOT think.

@jascha it is also the reason for a lot of interesting thoughts and ideas... that are hard to follow through.
@jascha Meditation is a trainable skill.
@drahflow with ADHD the ā€ždo not thinkā€œ meditations are the wirst and training that is utterly useless. There are movement meditation or guided meditations and some others which work - they mostly have a ā€žfocus on one thingā€œ technique and not the ā€ždo not thinkā€œ stuff
@jascha Maybe that is why physical excercise works for some? You focus on biking or you are dead-focus. I very much enjoy biking, following the route the orienteering game opens up depending on how other players are blocking my intended route. Having to calculate a different route that takes 16 minutes so the other route opens up just at the time when arrive there again without anyone else blocking first. There are so much else to focus on while biking, it is somehow calming and de-stressing.
@jascha
I was in a mental health institution to be treated for various mental health issues, including my #ADHD. They tried to teach us meditation. "Think of nothing!" I tried soo hard and failed miserably. When I learned, years later, that neurotypicals are actually able to think of nothing and this type of meditation only aims at teaching them to do that at will, I actually cried and laughed. I still wish I knew how that feels. Just for 5 minutes. I find thinking really exhausting at times.

@ReginaT @jascha

Oh no, that is not what meditation has to be. So many people have this misconception because it is often taught badly.

It is not necessarily about clearing your mind of all thoughts, it can be about focusing on one thing, and learning to notice when you get distracted and bringing your thoughts back to the original focus. It can be SO helpful for people with ADHD if taught properly because it helps us notice sooner when we are distracted and to refocus. (I have ADHD)

@PetraPhoenix @jascha

Yes, I know that now. But at that point I was just so disappointed in myself. Sadly, it put me off meditation for several years before I was ready to give it a new (better) try.
(But I still wish I knew how it feels to think nothing. Just out of curiousity.)

@ReginaT @jascha

I am glad you discovered better meditation!

My husband will often say that he is thinking about nothing, and I also dearly wish I understood that concept. The only time I have had no thoughts is when I was in shock - and that came with its own set of issues! So I would love to be able to switch off the continuous barrage of thinking in my brain in normal circumstances!

@ReginaT @jascha
I (NT) cannot ā€œthink nothing,ā€ and from what I know about meditation, this is true for almost everyone except perhaps some highly enlightened individuals.
Meditation is not about ā€œthinking nothingā€ for ordinary people. Instead, it’s about creating a distance from our own thoughts—allowing us to observe them from a distance and not be swept away by the feelings they may evoke.[1/2]
@ReginaT @jascha The same applies to feelings: we learn to watch them, rather than be consumed by them.
Constructing a ā€œmeta-mindā€ is not the same as ā€œthinking nothing.ā€ It’s about developing awareness and perspective, not emptiness. [2/2]
@jascha when I first developed long covid my brain went quiet. Like... absolutely quiet. No thoughts no sound no echolalia no music no repeating of earlier talks with people... just the vast nothingness in my brain. Tbh I didn't enjoy it very much. I was very happy to feel my brain and thoughts coming back after a few months (I could live with a bit less intensity though...)
@jascha
The closest I've been able to get is while under hypnosis, with the caveat that I have only managed to submit to the trance while sleep deprived.

@jascha @adelinej I call fake news. They're gaslighting us.

(I know from anecdotal evidence that thinking about nothing is a thing. I just can't imagine it.)

@GinevraCat @jascha @adelinej I feel the same way about people who claim they can see those Magic Eye things, and also people who say that they can literally visually perceive memories and things they imagine.
@Meyerweb @jascha @adelinej um.....guilty on both counts.
(I worked at it, though)

@jascha Do you have any sources for that claim? Afaik, that's not part of the differentiation between neurotypical and neurodiverse. Most people cannot easily "not think anything". That's why meditation needs to be taught, and why most practices focus the mind on something instead of just nothing. I believe that reduced filtering makes it more difficult, but if all the people in the history of humans who invented and used chants, prayers, repetitive movement and the like to calm, focus or even "empty" their mind were ND, then they are by far the typical ones and we need to reverse the definition. šŸ¤”

I'm pretty NT and the only way I can not think of anything is when I'm unconscious, e.g. asleep but not in a dreaming phase.

@dasgrueneblatt @jascha

i came to ask the same question. got any references? i'd love to share this with my therapist.

@jascha I can definitely stare into nothing and pass a lot of time that way. Neurotypicals think it's weird.
@[email protected] My personal solution to this, when I want to slow my brain down, is to utilize those rare abilities to get myself intentionally stuck in thought loops, for example, every thought that comes to me, I imagine I put it in a box or book and line it perfectly next to the other boxes and books, and I keep doing that for dozens of times until I start running out of thoughts, at which I start focusing on just staring at those imaginary lined up books or boxes in an imaginary empty room lit only by candles. I never run out of random thoughts to be fair, and many of them re-appear again and again, but sitting there just repeating those cycles long enough (up to an hour or two sometimes) allows them to slow down a little, and I usually feel better afterwards. If some thoughts are relevant to my life I may write them in a real notebook or text file to soothe myself into knowing that I won't miss that thing, I'll just come back to it later.

This is what works for me, sometimes, each mind is unique so your mileage may vary.
@jascha I teach meditation and most of my students are neurotypical. I can assure you that none of them have the ability to not think. Typically they think all the time, including during meditation.

@bodhipaksa @jascha

Thanks for posting this! Meditation was the first thing I thought of. I wondered if I had been doing it all wrong, using a tool that was designed for neurotypical quiet brains šŸ˜‚

@NilaJones @jascha It's a common misconception that meditation is about emptying your mind, etc. It's really about being present, as best you can, with whatever's arising including thoughts. Most neurotypicals are happy to have a few moments of quiet during a sit!

The mind does tend to settle with practice, but it's a long-term project and it comes and goes. I have a "soft eyes" approach that makes things easier. Here's a very brief one. Please let me know how it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGE1EiDsfbA

Meditation 1: The Heart's Awakening

YouTube
@bodhipaksa it is so funny because with no word I mentioned meditation.

@jascha

No, but you said that "neurotypical folks just can not think about anything for a period of time." And as someone who hears a lot about how much thinking goes on in people's heads — because I teach meditation — I can tell you this is not a trait neurotypical people have.

@jascha Obviously, it's more complicated and not as binary as "neurotypical people can think of nothing, while neurodiverse people can't".
@jascha Hmm. I don't know if I'm neurotypical or not, I've never looked into it. I definitely don't have the gift of not thinking at all. There's always something "in the background", maybe not always something that's too tangible or easy to put into words though. I do have the habit of occasionally saying that I'm not thinking about anything particular, but the keyword is "particular". It's a stream of consciousness, like water flowing. I might not have paid enough attention to pick out things well enough to describe the things in the stream. I almost always know the gist of the thoughts during these moments, but might not have spent any energy putting words to it, and therefore struggle to describe the thoughts. I haven't yet translated it to words, if you will. So when I'm in those situations it's easier to just say that I'm not thinking about anything. And sometimes I just say that if I want to avoid talking about certain things, of course.
If some people actually _are_ able to shut it off completely I have to say that my mind is kind of blown. It's so interesting to think about how peoples' minds operate, I wish I knew more.
@jascha my quiet times resulted in me learning how we have seedless grapes, why wombat poop is square and what the difference between a two toed sloth and a three toed sloth. And so much more useless information.

@jascha all I know is that I do stuff specifically to feel like I’m not constantly thinking. Exercise, reading, games, etc.

If I’m just idle my brain doesn’t stop. Either I occupy its cycles or it chooses how it wants to do it.

I don’t think allistic people have this same relationship or feeling about their mind.

@jascha Me to my brain: Won’t you please shut up!

There’s something alway going on. Discussions with myself. Imaginary discussions with others. And if nothing else, there’s a soundtrack of music, some made up, others, songs I’ve heard recently and long ago

@jascha

Sounds likeable—can you name any studies or other sources, which prove your thesis?

#Autism #ADHD

@idealistik it is not my thesis but work of actual scientists. Search engines are free but my time is not. I will not go and search for these papers and articles again.

@jascha

Seems I didn't find the right tone.
I'm sorry for that.

I didn't expect any research.
Just thought you'd already know a reference–maybe a specific book.

Thanks for your contextualising answer.

@jascha @Stephanie really? I don’t think I believe that’s true, is there like a study or something? It’s not like the brain has an off switch (unless you count certain drugs I guess) so how would one go about not thinking? You’d immediately notice you’re not thinking which mean thinking about not thinking and aaaa i’ve managed to confuse myself just trying to imagine this
@jascha
Given what many people have said in the comments already, what I suspect is happening is that NTs are just not as introspective as NDs often are, and therefor are less aware of what their thoughts are, thus mistaking some slightly altered states of consciousness as "not thinking". Just a hypothesis though.

@jascha

I have very intense #ADHD and I found one way of doing things that works, for me at least.

I started studying martial arts as a way of channeling my impulsivity, and found that when I was sparring, I had to maintain focus, as if I got distracted, then Bam! I was on the floor. :D

When I started to apply this to kata, and to solo weapon forms, I found my self slipping into the trance states known as "Flow states". Very chewy. Very zen.

But it was only when I treid fire juggling that it clicked for me.

Finding that flow state through physical exercise, but having to restrain the impulsivity as there's "something on fire!" moving around you, and finding the freedom to jam/improvise in terms of movement patterns and dance.

It's a very peaceful place to be in. :D

The combination of need for control, closeness to danger, and freedom to be, works really well for me.

Try starting with juggling. :D