Mastodawn

Stefano Marinelli

I start my modern car (2023) that's been sitting for about ten days. The very first thing it does is demand a software update, which fails because the battery is "too low". After driving it to charge, it finally starts the update (locking me out of the car for 30 minutes, completely unusable). Once it's done, the dashboard becomes "more modern" - which basically means it's worse and cluttered with useless information.

Then, I start the old car (2007) that's been parked for MONTHS. It spits out some smelly exhaust, makes a weird noise for a few seconds, and goes: "Let's go, I need to stretch my 'legs'."

I take it to the car wash. A guy there with a brand-new Chinese car takes a look and asks me about it. I tell him it's from 2007.
He peers inside the cabin and asks about the "infotainment" setup, since he "can't see the screen".
I calmly explain that it has a CD player, it even reads MP3s, and it has an Aux-in: I just plug my phone in with a cable and that's it.

He looked at me like I was an alien. Or an ancient Roman. How on earth do I survive without a screen always available, and having to actually plug in a physical cable every time? Crazy!

#cars #tech #ux #enshittification #software

Stefano Marinelli 13h ago

FYI: this: https://www.volvocars.com/uk/cars/volvo-car-ux/

Michael W Lucas

@stefano ewww no

I would like an electric car, if I could get one without touchscreen controls.

Stefano Marinelli 13h ago

@mwl exactly.
The most concerning part is that the Volvo is a Diesel one. But those engines are now so complex that I think an electric car would be much more reliable.

Graham Perrin 12h ago

@stefano @mwl as much as I want electric vehicles – not least, for the long-term economy (and, arguably, the environment) – I simply cannot afford one.

My 2005 Mercedes-Benz E 320 CDI (W211, estate) is relatively costly for fuel, tax, and the parking permit, but the purchase price was super low. Maybe £1,100 around five years ago.

I feel genuinely sorry for work colleagues who have much more modern vehicles that are shockingly expensive when maintenance and repairs, sometimes botched, are required.

My most recent annual MOT test: fail-free. Nothing more than the cost of the test.

As joyfully reliable as a W124? I had three of those in the past. Five years with the W211 is too soon for me to judge.

<https://goo.gl/photos/oeMVRzEDPCUi1YtD7> my first W124.

Curious 12h ago

@fuzzy @stefano @mwl I'm not sure what it's like in the UK. In Australia we have basically hit price parity for EVs vs petrol cars.As rooftop solar is so common here the economics are already very clear cut. I know in Canada and the US the restrictions on imported EVs keeps the cost higher.
I bought a basic EV new (first new car in my life) and it was cheaper than a petrol corolla. So I'm not sure it's the real cost, might be more to do with govt policy settings that keep them less accessible. I fully recognise that new cars are prohibitively costly and have always carefully bought used. As we have solar and I track usage we've hit 20,000km and it's cost about $400 in grid electricity and I'm still a year from the first service which is about aud$300 (2 year service cycle). Having a postgrad in env studies it was about reducing carbon. Having an economics degree, it's totally clear cut we are well past the tipping point in Australia.

@stefano They’ve basically become smartphones, but in the shape of cars

lina isidora | HOLY FUCK ARTEMIS II 14h ago

@stefano one of my friends also has an old car and has a bluetooth receiver in the aux port, that uses a usb cable for power. works perfectly and no cables needed :p

fedops 💙💛13h ago

@lina same, in my 16 year old truck. And also it just drives. No reading speed signs, no automatic speedup and slowdown, no ding-ding when you get close to a line on the road, no screaming when you get close to a bush.
@stefano

ClickyMcTicker 13h ago

@fedops @lina @stefano I about had a fight with a car that had lane assistance, because there’s a lot of construction in my area. The faint old markings are still visible, and the lanes make some odd moves as you drive. Was driving a friend’s car and it kept yanking me in the wrong direction.

fedops 💙💛12h ago

@ClickyMcTicker yeah. The lane assist in my car is quite good in discerning between the white (permanent) and yellow (temporary) markings. But overall the nanny mode is strong with this one...

Stefano Marinelli 13h ago

@fedops @lina yes, exactly. While I appreciate the modern safety things, I don't like all those "you can't drive as I'm driving for you". You drive or I drive.

@stefano @fedops @lina

My 2010 Silverado (yes, I know 😕 ) has been awesonme, with a few thousand here and there for repairs. I needed 4WD for th e plow and while it's very rusted, it gets Sirius.

If I could get the electrical system replaced, I would. Some windows work, sometimes, one tailight as well.

Stefano Marinelli 13h ago

@lina I don't use that much - so it's not a big issue to connect a cable. But that's a good idea!

release_candidate 13h ago

@stefano enshitification of cars is more painful and damaging than the internet counterpart.

Jorijn Schrijvershof 13h ago

@stefano it depends per brand I suppose. My 2024 Toyota still has buttons and doesn’t have all these frustrations you shared. But I agree with your sentiment, not everything newer is better perse.

@jorijn @stefano The Japanese car manufacturers are the most reliable these days, I've noticed.

JulianCalaby 13h ago

@stefano And this is why I'm dreading the time when my 2010 Corolla becomes uneconomical to run and I have to replace it with a more modern car.

ClickyMcTicker 13h ago

@stefano Mine is barely newer but has the exact same features. I did plug a Bluetooth-radio adapter so my phone can wirelessly connect to the audio though. The aux is nice for the slightly better audio quality, but I don’t need it when I’m driving. It’s there for passengers who complain or want to play their own music (repairing the Bluetooth is a one minute pain that I won’t suffer twice).

I’m genuinely sad that I can’t upgrade to an electric car primarily for this reason, among several others (data privacy).

Saxicola ✅ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺13h ago

@stefano
My 2003 Celica gets driven every six weeks or so when I need to do a "big shop". It starts immediately and off we go. I plug in my "MP3" player in to what was once the CD change cable.

Youngest car I have is 18 years old. I will use them until it's possible.

Don't know what then.

anparker 13h ago

@stefano
> After driving it to charge
I don't own a car, so I don't really know how bad it is. But I'm surprised it allowed you to drive before update.

Stefano Marinelli 12h ago

@anparker it's a diesel car, so the battery is the 12V one. And yes, it's not a security update, so I can drive without upgrading first...

Darker Knight 12h ago

A friend has a new Hyundai i20 which constantly beeps at him, talks bollocks and grabs the wheel if he goes off the centre lane to avoid potholes or anything else.

These new cars are being driven on failing roads, with too many baked in ridiculous 'nanny cares' interference crap that distract drivers (even if he takes his eyes off the road for a moment) and as you say totally obstructive 'updates' which are really commercial leaning piracy!

Stefano Marinelli 12h ago

@darkerknight The point is that the cars shouldn't allow drivers to get distracted. Instead, they remove all the physical buttons to use a huge, confusing tablet, and then try to make sure you're concentrated (beeping, talking your wheel, etc).

I usually say: Am I driving or are you driving, car?

ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ 12h ago

Stefano Marinelli 12h ago

@BenCotterill I had it, back in the early 200x 😄

ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ 12h ago

@stefano I wonder what they would think if I turned up in my 1956 Morris Minor and asked them to fix the trafficators? 😁

OccasionalDucks 11h ago

@BenCotterill @stefano

All the “infotainment” you could need - I miss my Morris Minor!

#IMissMyMorrisMinor

Stefano Marinelli 11h ago

@OccasionalDucks @BenCotterill stunning!

ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ 10h ago

@OccasionalDucks @stefano MIne never had those top two switches. What were they for?

OccasionalDucks 10h ago

Additions that were made in the late 1990s: reversing light and rear fog lamp. Left hand side with red light next to it is also an addition - heated rear windscreen.

ʙᴇɴ ᴄᴏᴛᴛᴇяɪʟʟ 10h ago

@OccasionalDucks What year was yours? Just noticed it’s not split windscreen.

OccasionalDucks 8h ago

1960

My infotainment on my 25 year old car stopped working when I changed the battery, and I left it like that for several years. Bliss. I only found the security code for unlocking it because I missed the tiny little black & white LCD screen which told me the time.

Lance, Enjoying Copious Pollen 11h ago

@stefano My 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage (the final year for the model) came with a large display for the infotainment system and backup camera.

Problem was the stereo would power on whenever I started the car. I checked with the dealer and the unit manufacturer (Alpine), learning that this auto-on "feature" couldn't be disabled. I wasn't about to settle for a stereo with a mind of its own.

So I replaced it with a conventional in-dash stereo (and upgraded the cheap speakers). I'm much happier now!

Vehicles without screens should be available by law.

The Psychotic Network Ferret 11h ago

@Sfwmson @stefano Agreed, I still drive a 2012 Honda, largely because 1) It's running great, and 2) because new cars suck. Every time I have to travel for work I have to get a rental vehicle, and the "infotainment systems" are universally trash.

The 2017 police cruiser that we bought last year has a tiny, easily ignorable screen, but it is almost entirely display only, and the controls are only for manipulating the bluetooth. Everything else still has manual controls, which are actually usable while the car is in motion.

Zeki Çatav 🤔 ☕ 🕯️🎶10h ago

@Sfwmson @stefano I'm looking for a hybrid or electric vehicle, but one with a dashboard and controls like the 2010-2015 models.

@catavz @stefano

I'd LOVE an electric car and also solar panels, but we build a dumb house in the dumb woods and I need to plow in winter.
( I love our house and woods!)

@Sfwmson @stefano forbid without bringing solution, no worries, our government are expert at it.

Ann Effes 11h ago

And let's not even get started on the fact that for about €150, you can retrofit a large CarPlay screen even in cars from 2007 and older...

(my 2005 MB Vito Camper e.g.)

LC Wanderlust 10h ago

@stefano personally looking into retrofitting my Fiat Panda (2011) to electric, because electric cars are cool, but not this whole UX over-the-air modems crap

Root Moose 9h ago

@stefano As a fairly "hard core" car dork I am finally prepared to buy an electric car as the next daily driver appliance.

But I don't know if I'll be able to bring myself to do it.

Modern cars are rage inducing due to the terrible infotainment systems and dangerous active safety supports.

If every time I get in the car the first step is to turn off all the nanny systems then I'm not sure I'll be able to do it.

The newest car we currently own is 2016 GTI (wife's toy summer daily and autocross car) and that car has a dangerous accident avoidance system that can be turned off and stays off between restarts. Thankfully, our 2016 Touareg is of the older generation and doesn't have any of that nonsense on it. All my 'fun' cars are much older but I don't drive them in the winter time since we are in the rust belt. Getting into my MR2 is like a breath of fresh air. At the moment doesn't even have a radio in the dashboard. Ha.

ABS and traction control were great additions to every day cars. Beyond that the systems are intrusive and sometimes dangerous if they actively affect a car's velocity IMO.

Looking at the number of responses in your thread I think you struck a nerve. Ha!

Tall Simon 7h ago

@RootMoose @stefano Extra rage: we are babysitting a 2018 Leaf for a bit. Darn thing wants us to watch movies on some obscure (and defunct?) Nissan streaming service.

Uh huh.

I should scan the damn thing for security problems. Probably hasn't had a software update since 2021, if it's anything like a phone from that era.

(We've noticed, though, with gas at $1.85/l here, the Leaf emits more smug pollution than usual.)🤔😆

RealGene ☣️9h ago

@stefano
Yesterday I met a significantly old person who has never used an ATM.

Just a Mr Bill 8h ago

@stefano @RealGene God forbid you should have to back up. How would you even know what’s behind you?

Stefano Marinelli 8h ago

@billd @RealGene oh, true! And it doesn’t even have parking sensors!

Princess Unikitty 8h ago

@stefano
The degree to which I do not want a screen and do not want my car to get updates is extreme.

diana 🏳️‍⚧️🦋🌱8h ago

"We have altered your car's software. Pray that we do not alter it further"

Reinald Kirchner 7h ago

@stefano I read three things with the focus on "entertainment system":
- the "car" problem is solved. An no longer of any interest. Motor, maintainability, fuel/energy consumption is no longer of any interest.
- humans focus on those elements they interact with - the entertainment system. More important than car guts.
- driving a car has become so boring, that entertainment has become the most important feature.

Armin Hanisch 5h ago

@stefano Peak car UX 😎😉

@Linkshaender @stefano

Stimmt, von da an gings bergab.

Stefano Marinelli 3h ago

@klaus @Linkshaender totally agree!