zane25
Lesley Carhart 
People just aren’t ready for the conversation about Starfleet Academy and Discovery just not being primarily intended for an audience eye of straight, white, millennial and older dudes. And how much *other* Trekkie fan audiences could relate to the characters, finally.
Months of me wanting to scream, “but we’re the audience for this, not you!” Into an internet void.
Not me being actual walking Captain Ake as a senior engineer and military veteran.
Draken BlackKnight@hacks4pancakes
Everyone who says "Not my *insert franchise here*" is speaking from a place of misguided nostalgia.
Yes, I'm a straight white man. I also grew up on Next Generation Trek and the TOS movies. Anyone who says Discovery and Starfleet Academy aren't Star Trek needs their heads examined.
Momo@hacks4pancakes
The way she doesn't like to wear shoes and how she drops herself into seats give off so much ADHD energy! But combined with her self-confidence it becomes mind-blowing.
That is you? Awesome!! 🤩
The Witch of Crow Briar@hacks4pancakes Oh, yes, I VERY much agree, this video reaction from a white cishet guy “critic” had me LIVID: https://tech.lgbt/@crowbriarhexe/116286573751593421
The Witch of Crow Briar (@[email protected])
@[email protected] I personally loved this show, but that’s not why I find it so disgusting to see joyless fucks like this safely insulated obnoxious whiny manchild gleefully dancing on its grave - rather because it’s everything MAGA hates and I can practically guarantee the cancellation is a direct result of the Paramount takeover by Trump crony Ellison. Expect any new Star Trek from here on out to be an Elon Musk techbro wet dream under the new ownership. But at least you won’t have to see any glitter.
@hacks4pancakes I'm not the target audience. And I'm completely ok with that.
@hacks4pancakes Straight old white guy here. I was totally into Starfleet Academy. Commander Reno is my spirit animal.
CavyherdI was actually thinking about this as I was watching #StarfleetAcademy.
I'm an absolutely from-the-start 1st Gen #Trekkie
& I have my issues with the quality of some of the writing.
But I can't express how stoked I am to see the wild range & variety of characters. It's just so freakin' glorious.
JimHudson@hacks4pancakes Young woman screaming at the cloud.... ? ;)
Colman Reilly@hacks4pancakes “solely”, not even “primarily “.
I mean I’m from the 70s, straight, male, cis and white Irish (more or less) and I enjoyed them but it’s an outrage they weren’t designed just for me. 🙄
@hacks4pancakes I’m
so tired: I don’t want more fucking stories about me, I want to see other stories.
so tired: I don’t want more fucking stories about me, I want to see other stories.
Arcadiagt5@hacks4pancakes I haven’t really seen either but it does make me wonder if the historical acceptance/championing of Uhura, Sulu, and (to a lesser extent) Chekhov only happened because Kirk being there and in command was reassuring to that original audience…
@arcadiagt5 @hacks4pancakes the counter revolution wasn’t properly organised then either.
Peter Brett@hacks4pancakes Yup. Lots of men need to learn that, “Not everything is for you.”
Fortunately Discovery and Academy have plenty for straight white millennial cis men to enjoy, too.
@krans obviously not exclusively so it can’t be any good
@hacks4pancakes See also, ‘The Last Jedi’.
@krans @hacks4pancakes only if you like women as people rather than objects. I mean Michael and Georgiou are glorious but not if you want your women as props for a male protagonist.
Mike@hacks4pancakes I was so so disappointed when I heard they canceled Starfleet Academy!
I do match that demographic you mentioned (straight white older dude) but my opinions have never aligned with what it seems the majority of them (us?) think.
I thought it got off to a slowish start, but as the episodes started fleshing out the characters it was really getting me involved and caring about them. I thought the last couple of episodes were great!
So boo on Paramount!
AFRO@hacks4pancakes is this not standard Star Trek knowledge?
Anthony, of course@hacks4pancakes I enjoyed both. Really enjoyed SFA, actually. Definitely not envious of Ake's Frank Lloyd Wright inspired office. No, not at all… 🙄
keeps vis.social running@anthony @hacks4pancakes OMG I love it so much!!!! I wish I had that office/quarters.
Alex Ball@kristinHenry @anthony @hacks4pancakes So fabulous. I hope that set designer does other amazing work in that same vein!
@polarweasel @anthony @hacks4pancakes They have a wonderful understanding of Art Nouveau, and mixing it...so many of my favorite art movements.
Matt Wilcox@hacks4pancakes The weird thing is…I don’t think those older guys were bothered about relating to characters. The major difference between old trek and new as I see it is the focus of the shows. Old trek was about story with characters being pretty thin props for whatever story there was that week. New trek is the other way around - very shakey thin story as props for character focus.
I hope they do a show that’s both again, like DS9 became.
Steve@hacks4pancakes I hadn’t had time to watch Starfleet Academy, but the way certain demographics reacted sounded like it was worth the watch, Discovery had its moments that were a bit flat but largely I enjoyed it particularly after the jump to the 32nd
Iain McLaren@hacks4pancakes as a straight white old dude I could not agree with you more. The show came at us from a completely different vector and I am sad that it was cancelled.
Rachel Rawlings@hacks4pancakes I felt a little old watching Academy, but the characters and cast were so great. I loved the chemistry of the faculty and of Holly Hunter vs Paul Giamatti
And Discovery was just fucking fantastic.
Jax UKStartrek has always changed with the times and been a bastion of diversity and representation. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand startrek in my humble opinion.
Tock@JaxVent @hacks4pancakes Exactly how I see it. They see this as a leftist bastion of fantasy. Bury it or ruin it, this is a prize won.
Taking away any dreams of a future where society moves past today's problems because these problems are solved by billionaires losing power. With "we the people" coming up with better answers without them.
They are already hard at work mutilating Star Wars.
Nick Kerker 
@hacks4pancakes As a straight, cis, white millennial male my only gripe with Discovery is that it wasn’t set int the 32nd century from the beginning. These shows live up to Star Trek’s core ideals and are products of their time tackling issues of their time, just as the Treks that came before them did.
People who bemoan “woke” Star Trek never truly understood it to begin with.
Davey@hacks4pancakes Discovery is the only one I've watched a full series of and I take a sick pleasure in letting certain people know this.
I'm not the target audience for these "legacy franchise" things anyway. I'll watch utter muck if it's at least new. But if you are going to do something in a really well-established setting it only makes sense to try something new.
(Andor did this but in a "stories for boys" way so that's allowed, or something)
Tara L. Campbell@hacks4pancakes Agreed.
I absolutely loved Discovery, and it was the re-entry point for me to check out other newer Trekkie shows. The fact that it's "so contentious" tells me the show did what it set out to do: hook (or summon back) a broader audience.
Flaming Cheeto@hacks4pancakes As a stale pale male, the thing that bothers me most about Academy and post-jump Disco is the ship sections not touching. That's three ships in formation! That is not one ship! I don't care if it identifies as the same ship!
Ok, I'll go back to my oatmeal now.
Ok, I'll go back to my oatmeal now.
𐁂𐀑𐀐𐁐@hacks4pancakes Kurtzman Trek apologists really need to pick a lane between "Trek has always been woke" and "Finally, the first Trek that is not solely for toxic white dudebros" it's VERY confusing
skylos@hacks4pancakes Actually I am straight white male and Gen X and I love Starfleet Academy and I love the glorious queerness of Discovery even if Michael is to much of a Mary Sue. I think who doesn't and calls themselves a trekker should read up on the IDIC principle.
Adrianna Pińska@hacks4pancakes Ffff, this thread is how I found out that SFA will only get one more season.
I had mixed feelings about Discovery over its run, but loved SFA immediately. It was my favourite of the live action new Trek series, hands down.
It's wild to me to what degree certain franchise fans don't acknowledge or even *see* who has actually been in their fandom for literal decades, ever since there's been a fandom; before there was an internet, and sometimes before they were on Earth, enjoying something even though it wasn't primarily intended for them.
@hacks4pancakes Thinking it over some more: I'm sure the haters will see this as a personal victory, but it's hard for me to see it as anything other than an inevitable consequence of the current political climate in the US. I was wondering how SFA could survive on a mainstream network during this hard swing back towards conservatism and appeasement, and I guess that I have my answer.
Also: to be clear, I don't want to suggest that shows like SFA and DIS haven't been pulling in a completely new audience (I've heard a lot of anecdotes suggesting otherwise). But Trek has always had a diverse audience, and different Trek fans have always enjoyed and engaged with different aspects of the franchise (it's the space politics and space legal drama for me), and it's always been plainly untrue that Trek is a single thing aimed at a single narrow type of fan.
DS9 was a departure from what had until then been considered "the" formula, and it was great. So were LDS and PRO, and I also liked them. So was PIC, which I thought was a swing and a miss (in very different ways across the seasons) -- but there were things about it that I enjoyed, and despite the parts that I disliked I appreciate that they tried something different. Now that SNW (very mixed feelings) is wrapping up, what's left? A new by-the-numbers nostalgia-fest, or nothing? I'm not optimistic.
Ceremus@hacks4pancakes People apparently also don't want to be reminded of what would've happened to shows like TNG had they been judged by the audience reception to their early seasons.
@ceremus @hacks4pancakes Absolutely. And those shows had 20 some episodes in their 1st season to find their footing.
I miss the days of some episodes being one offs and character development and not having to drive the season arc forward. I think I'm in a minority on that though.
Erotic Mythology ✊@hacks4pancakes I am not straight and not male (though admittedly, I'm old) and I couldn't bear watching more than 4 episodes of Discovery. It wasn't well-written and the characters were stereotypes. I don't fault anyone for liking it but how someone can relate to the characters without doing some very heavy lifting is beyond me.
@AimeeMaroux @hacks4pancakes Fair. Your demographics don't determine your opinions.
However, I'm guessing that you didn't spend your time and energy denigrating those who did really like Discovery, you just didn't watch it?
It's the folks who think they're all that matters and if it isn't for them it shouldn't exist, and they'll expend a *lot* of energy to make it go away no matter who else might want it. Those are the folks that piss me off!
@mlippert @hacks4pancakes You are correct, I just didn't watch it. I may have expressed my dislike here or there but I don't care if others like it. Hell, sometimes you project something onto a character that is definitely not there in canon but you love the work basically for your own imagination and that's fine.
I just don't like the sweeping claim that only obnoxious cishet white dudes dislike Discovery or that there aren't any legit issues with its storytelling.
@AimeeMaroux @hacks4pancakes I'm glad you bothered to post particularly for that reason.
People have their own individual opinions and thoughts and I always try to push back when I hear someone make a statement that lumps everyone in a particular category into an amorphous mass with the same thoughts, actions and opinions.
I was trying to support you having your own opinion and contrast it with the actions of those some feel were a large contribution to us losing SFA. I hope that came across.
Susan Vanderplas@hacks4pancakes I'm a straight white woman, but I fucking love starfleet academy. It is a great show. And anyone who thinks it's a departure from Star Trek in "wokeness" hasn't paid attention.
C S@hacks4pancakes I'm not the target audience for either Discovery or SFA. I'm a CIS white male. But I absolutely loved how the writers of SFA represented so many different minorities. The characters were fictional, but their stories were tangible, and there was growth, and it was refreshing that it was a (mostly) low stakes story. It makes me angry how... rabid some people are about disliking the show. It's like a perverse mirror of the fascist crap going on in our lives - they not only don't like it, they also want to prevent other people from liking it. A show that's known for espousing acceptance and diversity!
@claus @hacks4pancakes I just posted *exactly* this, just to see you said it here first.
derptron@hacks4pancakes One thing that really struck me when watching Discovery is how much the franchise focuses on war now. I don't know why that show. It's not the first by far. It just hit me though and I wonder how Roddenberry would have liked that. Every Star Trek, even one called "Discovery", is primarily full of war.
Exciting. It's a good, fun show. I like it. But it hit me.
Come On Giant Asteroid!Cis, Het, Older White Guy here. I LOVE DISCOVERY! I LOVE STARDATE:90210! I AM AMBIVALENT ABOUT PICARD! I LOVE STRANGE NEW WORLDS!
IOW, until now, I've loved every series even if it took a while to warm to DS9. I love all three animated series.
Except for a couple, I do draw the line at the movies. All of them are… watchable but only a couple are good (ST2:TWOK, ST4:TOWTW, IMHO).
If any new Trek dross ever leaks from Paramaga, it's likely to be garbage.
MaZderMind@hacks4pancakes @B3r6ur Yae. Would rather watch Voyager for the 8th time.
@hacks4pancakes @B3r6ur (I think I might habe mis-read your post. Might be part for course.)
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)TOS has a main character whose parents are different species and no one is surprised that they are married. The idea that the gender of people in a relationship would bother people in such a society seems weird.
It’s probably necessary for audience comprehension, but the idea that we’d still be using gendered pronouns in the 23rd century grated on me quite a bit as a teenager watching TNG for the first time (especially since they did try to make the titles and forms of address in Starfleet gender-neutral). At least Iain M Banks put in translator note explaining that this was an artefact of your reading the book in a stupid language and not the original Marain.
Milly@hacks4pancakes Huh, I have never heard of "Starfleet Academy". Had to route through Atlanta in the USA to even see the trailer as it wasn't available anywhere else. I liked it though. Though I liked Discovery too so I'm probably, as you say, the target audience... for once.
Chery (Great Australian Pods)@hacks4pancakes I'm a 64 year old woman and I loved both!