what we thought we knew about autism and... whatnot
'For decades, researchers had been measuring the wrong thing. Conflating communication style differences with empathy deficits produced dramatically inflated effect sizes and an illusion of empathy impairment'
@oscarjiminy the conclusion echoes criticisms I've made of ADHD (and neurodivergent) characterization: so much of it is defined by what assessors think is a problem, not what the individual being assessed thinks is a problem.
My brother and I were both diagnosed with ADHD as adults. Looking back, the evidence was all there when we were younger but because neither of us "acted out" or noticeably struggled academically it wasn't brought up. Even the name, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, is biased towards the impact it has on others. My problem isn't that I lack attention, it's that I lack of control of attention. Sure, that makes it harder to concentrate sometimes, but it also means I miss meals or don't sleep because I can't interrupt myself. Not staying on task is what teachers care about though, so it is what gets focused on.
@Andii @oscarjiminy so here's another gem:
researchers interpreted autistic moral consistency as "undue concern" about ethics. Because of the enduring assumption “autism=bad,” they pathologized conscience and treated principled behavior as a symptom rather than a strength.
@grant_h @Andii @oscarjiminy What this is essentially saying, is that failures to conform to a core defining principle of conservatism (in-group must be preferred), was ”developmental failure”.
It tells more about the unmatched levels oppression practiced by western socities at large, than it does about neurodivergent people.
We judge people who fail to be good imperialists as defective.
The attitude also implies
Social conformity “normal” = morals
It seems like the very wealthy, especially the most notorious one at the moment, likes to clothe himself in autism to lay claim to specialness and characterize his outrageous behavior as autism, but the accurate description would be dark triad.
@efi @Andii @oscarjiminy Short answer: Yes.
Long Answer: How many random acts of kindness have you encountered in your life so far vs how many random acts of fuck you just because?
@Vaneshi @efi @Andii @oscarjiminy
I have experienced thousands of acts of random kindness for each act of random fuckyouness
From actual people, I mean, not governmental policies
This might be cultural. I think being kind to strangers is a huge thing in the culture where I live. I miss it, when I travel!
@Andii AI slop much? "this isnt X; it's Y" phrasing
@bweller @Andii @oscarjiminy
you know these phrasings happen in real texts as well? what do you think where AI "learned" them from?
it's just *one* indicator of AI slop. if a text has many such indicators it's most likely slop, but by itself the indicator means nothing
The British series 'Patience' has a go at it, but the French original it copied "Astrid" was far more into details. Certainly a lesson and worth a watch for us 'normies.'
@oscarjiminy It reads as "autists refuse to be moral hypocrites, which is so out of norm that we should medicalize it."
"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats it's most vulnerable members." Mahatma Ghandi
@naga @oscarjiminy I like "over-extending", it's nicely descriptive.
Empathy (especially difficulties regulating it) can also be related to trauma responses in CPTSD, which so many autistic people (including me) also have.
@drewtowler @naga this's often occurred to me too
i've not had a diagnosis and although i'm 100% certain i presented with autistic 'traits' as a child i'd always understood it as a trauma response.
thinking about it in the past few years though (and reading some of these responses) i am identifying strongly with some comments and am beginning to wonder
@drewtowler @naga yeh i came to the same conclusion – it doesn't matter in any kind of substantive way but this goes to autism as a diagnosis proper imo
is it little more that a constellation of characteristics as distinct from some kind of ontological condition because if it is then that's just human diversity and we should perhaps just work to dilate that aperture and be more inclusive broadly imo
@drewtowler @naga i think mutations need to have genetic markers
neuro difference is bound up with psychological elements. there may be material aspects but if there are i'm pretty sure we don't know what they are
this goes to trauma manifesting in neurodivergent traits. outside of brain trauma/injury neurodivergence can be brought on by traumatic experience. that's not about spontaneous mutation in response to stimuli
@oscarjiminy @naga I'm officially out of my depth now... my understanding was that autism, at least, was an inherited genetic differemce and involved physical differences in the brain.
Having said that, my ADHD changed and intensitified after I had a traumatic brain injury some years ago. Which kind of blows my genetics-only argument out of the water.
Where that leaves us I don't know, but you're right that mutation probably isn't the right word.
@oscarjiminy *looks up the Empathy Quotient*
*...flabbergasted at how badly its questions relate to what it's supposed to measure*
How does *how often you dream* measure empathy?
Edit: OK correction, apparently 1/3 of the questions are control questions that are not meant to measure empathy.
@oscarjiminy I literally cried reading this. I’ve been made to feel bad about me in one way or another my entire life.
I’m tired. So, so tired.
But so happy what I am is finally being recognised and actually seen in a meaningful way.
@Lydie @oscarjiminy the expansion of identified autism was likely key.
The broadening within the DSM V, which removed asperger's, probably had a lot to do with that.
So they went from niche cases to... a lot more... so the understanding comes to researchers as a revolution. But everyone is just the same.
Now the task is getting it reflected properly I their datasets.
They took off blindfolds and now are surprised.
So everything has to be revisited.
Thanks for sharing the article!
Other articles and books by the author, Ludmila N. Praslova, Ph.D:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/ludmila-n-praslova-phd
@oscarjiminy the thing is, a lot of those stereotypes come from masking
Tell us to stop getting so excited about things enough times, and we clamp down on our tone of voice and stop sharing our ideas
Tell us to stop caring so much, and we'll get really good at pretending we don't care
The other breakthrough here is in scientists becoming trustworthy enough for autistic people to actually be themselves in the testing context.
@oscarjiminy Excellent! As an Aspergie who talks with strangers greatly, this in part explains that inclination. Autism can help things be seen with less normative bias.
Deep autism can, I believe, result in such deep empathy that the overload can epigenetically disable that empathy as a protection mechanism.
@oscarjiminy Ah, yes, Psychology Today. "The world" got it wrong. The whole world.
If only someone told "the world" to talk to autistic people, who are apparently not a part of the world, but knew all this the whole time.
"Nothing about us without us" indeed.
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