Steve Troughton-SmithFeb 21

Turns out Codex is just as proficient at writing for the Windows App SDK, so I jumpstarted it with the existing unfinished UWP version of Pastel, and, like before, pointed it at the existing Swift codebase to begin porting it piece by piece to Windows 11. This is by no means a one-shot, I am slowly and methodically recreating the functionality of the Mac app.

Of course, there is no native version of Codex for Windows, so I'm running the Linux version under WSL, and Visual Studio 2022 to compile

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 21
Light Mode | Dark Mode
Show threadSteve Troughton-Smith
Watching Codex recreate in seconds things that took me months, maybe even years, to implement the way I wanted 🥲
Feb 21 at 11:03pmIvory for Mac
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 21
We are actually deeply cooked
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
Just ploughing through this Windows port, with some pretty complex bespoke UI
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
Editing flow; you don't even have to squint to see how a finished app might work. Something that I would have had to take months to build at the expense of the iOS version, done in a night's free time after a full workday doing more-productive things. I always wanted to finish Pastel on Windows, but I had reluctantly accepted that I could never invest that kind of time — save for some kind of catastrophe that left me excluded from the Apple ecosystem. Now? Trivial.
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

⭐️ Some more shots of all the working aspects of this Pastel for Windows project, using .NET 8.0 and the Windows App SDK (and Community Toolkit), ported from the iOS codebase and my original UWP prototype by OpenAI's Codex 5.3.

It's not a full app yet, but it's dangerously close.

It's hard not to think that agentic programming, or agentic porting, could have outright saved Windows Phone, had this all been possible a decade ago

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
It's only when you start trying to use a UI framework that you realize all the little things that are missing — like Windows' grid view doesn't have a drag-select API, it all has to be done custom. Or like how its alert boxes have no way of indicating a destructive item
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

When you search for Microsoft's Fluent design docs for Windows apps, you get a 404 on Microsoft's main site 🤡

You have to really know where to look to find them again, and they're buried as the last option (behind Web, iOS, and Android) on their design site

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

I'm pretty familiar with the .NET/XAML app building process; all my apps were ported to Windows Phone 7, then migrated to Windows Phone 8, Windows 8 and UWP, and I know my way around Visual Studio and the publishing system. I've even been through WinObjC for aborted ports of some of my apps. I'm familiar with the APIs, pitfalls, the 3P libs.

I won't pretend that somebody with zero experience would be able to just drop themselves in to Codex and easily build something like Pastel (but I hope so)

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

I updated my copy of Visual Studio and now 'GitHub Copilot Chat' is the first tab in the project explorer, replacing the project file list ('solution explorer') 🤡

Yeah no thanks

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

Drag and drop reordering, drag and drop colors into palettes.

This kind of (Mac-like?) behavior is not common to Windows at all. I am pleasantly surprised at how robust the Windows App SDK is, considering nobody in their right mind is building apps this way outside of Microsoft 🤪

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
Renaming a new palette, opening it in a new window, adding it to a collection, and navigating around the app
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

Codex has no problem going deep into the weeds implementing things I would never have had the faintest idea how to begin, like this eyedropper button that calls into Win32, captures the screen and steals mouse events, and creates a mouse-tracking overlay crosshair window with GDI+, a task far outside the bounds of most WinUI apps. In minutes, without complaint.

This particular behavior is built-in on macOS, but not on Windows, so it all has to be done from scratch

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
This Windows version of Pastel is just under 10K lines of code (C# & XAML) so far. It doesn't yet persist its data model to disk, or sync, it doesn't have the color systems UI, it doesn't import pictures yet, and it doesn't generate wallpapers or widgets. Still plenty to do, but it's rapidly becoming a real app. I'm already very proud of it, and it's been kinda fun trying to pull off a level of polish that Windows apps tend not to see
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
I'm kinda surprised Microsoft, who has been all-in on this stuff for two years with Copilot (and, now, Claude), doesn't have a whole app store full of beautiful first-party native apps already. If *I* (a dummy) can do this in a day, what can a platform expert working full-time at Microsoft do?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
/cc @shanselman
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
Some code to ensure newly-spawned windows are always close to the mouse, with some bonus presentation animations
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
Windows doesn't have an equivalent to TestFlight, but it does allow you to do private, whitelisted store submissions before shipping publicly, so I'm gonna start the ball rolling with this build of Pastel to make sure everything's in order
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
(That's where the Electron version of Broadcasts for Windows has lived since 2020 🙃)
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22

And, since the usage stats part is always worth mentioning:

I've used maybe 40% of my weekly Codex credits building this Windows port of Pastel (never hit the five hour limit), I'm on the $20/mo ChatGPT Plus plan, and I've only used 'gpt-5.3-codex medium'

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
In case you ever wondered how long the publishing process is on the Windows Store: that long
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 23
One of the reasons I picked Pastel for this project was because I had built some initial concepts some years ago and determined that it would look the most native in Microsoft's Fluent Design design language, and would be the easiest bringup. Windows 11 and macOS 11–15 look incredibly similar, and already share many of the same patterns and elements. It would be a great opportunity to do a Windows 11 app right and make a gorgeous app (i'm biased) in the process
Show threadDave KleinFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith oh wow the Microsoft app I designed in 2017 is still there https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9p2gmh3s0fzj?hl=en-US&gl=US
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Show threadJack MinehanFeb 23
@stroughtonsmith do you plan to monetize the windows version? or just a fun project to explore the capabilities of codex?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 23
@jackminehan if I eventually complete it to a shipping standard, then yes. There's no way to share a license with a iOS/Mac version or subscription, so it'll have to do its own thing, so I'll probably lean on platform specifics like OneDrive for sync rather than try to build something that syncs between platforms
Show threadSteve TibbettFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith Product management and other organizational structure doesn't scale the same way, or at least the infrastructure isn't there yet. Imagine if it was.
Show threadMartin HöllerFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith I‘m currently making @inyourface for Windows as a native app. Coming from the Apple ecosystem, the dev experience on Microsoft is certainly „interesting.“ For example, it took me about 3 months, several calls with support agents and a lot of headaches to get a fully verified developer account.
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
@martinhoeller @inyourface oof. I went through it back in… 2012? …and I think it involved sending faxes
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
@martinhoeller @inyourface (though BlackBerry was the worst; they required me to go to a notary)
Show threadMartin HöllerFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith @inyourface 😬 no faxing for me. The biggest blockers were: Need to use Edge browser to use MS Partner Center and they require the email address you provide to be of the same domain as the business website you fill into the form. But of course they don't have proper form validation or error messages. This took several rounds with MS support, down to their tech team. In the end I figured it out myself.
Show threadQuarterSwedeFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith As a side note: You are most certainly NOT a dummy. You have critical thinking in spades. That’s why you figure a lot of crap out so quickly compared to a lot of people around you.
Show threadEnricoFeb 23
@stroughtonsmith my guess? Meetings, then more meetings.
Show threadMike CaneFeb 25

@stroughtonsmith No one gives even a teeny fuck about Windows anymore. Not even MS. They’re the new IBM. All-in Enterprise.

People deserting to Linux. Do some apps for that!

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 25
@mikecane Windows can make my apps look pretty, good for marketing. Linux… not so much
Show threadFrank RupprechtFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith What Codex thinking modes are you using for work like this?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
@fuzzyhead 5.3 medium, I've never taken it off the default setting
Show threadMichael IsraeliFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith @fuzzyhead How are you using Codex for this project, do you have it opened simultaneously in VS Code (for Codex extension) or using command line?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
@thisisizzy @fuzzyhead I have WSL installed and I’m using codex from the commandline. I’m building and running the solution with VS2022 independently
Show threadKevin Karhan Feb 22
@stroughtonsmith and now we all know why #Windows #Apps look like ass!
Show threadpeter sibleyFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith for sure
Show threadJonathan TrottFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith would have required a large enough code base of windows phone apps to be trained on though...
Show threadSteve LandeyFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith I wonder if this will allow a new competitor in the mobile OS space going forward. Hope so!
Show threadjramskovFeb 22
@irskep @stroughtonsmith Year of the Linux Desktop! 😁
But somewhat serious: If this is where things are heading, do the platform become less important and then it might as well be an open source platform like Linux?
Show threadDominic HoptonFeb 22
@stroughtonsmith I’m guessing you’ve given it some reference screenshots, or is it just getting the vibe from you?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 22
@grork that's all me baby. I wrote the initial UWP prototype, I wrote the iOS app, I talked it through finishing the job (using the Windows App SDK)
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 21
@stroughtonsmith It's absolutely wild. I am vibecoding my way through a design system "prompt to make a design" app. I wanted to embed a simulator in the UI, so I just asked Opus to...reverse engineer how Xcode shows previews, and to do the same thing. It figured it out 🤯 (albeit, it doesn't work super well yet, but like, no chance in hell I'd be able to do that)!
Show threadDominic HoptonFeb 21
@kyleve @stroughtonsmith how *does* the preview stack work?
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 21
@grork @stroughtonsmith hell if I know, I haven't looked at the code at all 🙈
Show threadFrank RupprechtMar 7
@kyleve Can you please ask Opus how it got past the entitlement needed to use the preview system? That’s my blocker right now. 😅
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Mar 7
@fuzzyhead Can’t anymore, don’t work there anymore unfortunately so the code is gone! It did “just work” for me though
Show threadFelix LapalmeFeb 21
@stroughtonsmith and does this one take a full 3s on the main queue to load?
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 21
@Lapfelix not sure what you're referencing; it launches in about a second
Show threadFelix LapalmeFeb 21
@stroughtonsmith haha sorry I’m referencing the macOS color picker
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 21
@stroughtonsmith It's absolutely _crazy_ how good the tools have gotten in the last 6 (and even 3) months. Gone from "drunk intern" to "valued senior level colleague" in record time. In some ways it's freeing (I can work at thinking speed), but also terrifying – can't imagine any low taste, low agency engineers will have jobs in a couple years...
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithFeb 21
@kyleve taste is the key word. None of this is possible without taste. But taste is a really hard thing to learn from nothing
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 21
@stroughtonsmith Indeed – very strange times...
Show threadPanzerFeb 22
@kyleve @stroughtonsmith it’s so fucking fun
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 22
@panzerprime @stroughtonsmith Literally actually finding myself writing "code" on the weekends for the first time in years. Stopped because it was always such a chore to do what I wanted with the endpoint being so far away, so why bother – it'd never get done.
Show threadPanzerFeb 22
@kyleve @stroughtonsmith I’m building 1-2 things a week every week just for me! I have a 15 year backlog of things I want to exist that I never had the ability to cause to exist
Show threadMark ReidFeb 22
@kyleve @stroughtonsmith This has been my experience too.
Show threadKyle HughesFeb 22
@kyleve @stroughtonsmith and that is only so long as taste can’t be trained
Show threadKyle 🏳️‍🌈Feb 22
@kyle @stroughtonsmith It definitely _can_ to a degree already (eg, working on importing all our design system content guidelines into the pre-prompt for my design system app so it can leverage that), but that's also very tactical "taste". Good for some stuff, not good at the larger philosophizing of "does this make sense in the arc and context of the product", or at least, not yet...