Pav
nixCraft 🐧The website “Keep Android Open” is an initiative to protest and advocate against a new policy by Google which bans sideloading apps. The goal is to pressure Google to reverse or modify this policy to protect the open nature of the Android platform and the ability to sideload or use 3rd party app stores without excessive restrictions https://keepandroidopen.org
Aria 
Drew
F4GRX Sébastien@crmsnbleyd @nixCraft to go where? iOS?
River@crmsnbleyd @f4grx @nixCraft The biggest issue with open source phone OS'es currently (at least to me) is that they're incredibly lacking in terms of hardware support. Not even the "feel free to install, but if you've got weird hardware you're on your own", but rather, the line currently tends to be "if you do not own one of these 17 specific devices, you cannot run this OS. Period."
It's hard, I've owned my phone since like 2021, I don't intend to upgrade for several more years, but I don't like the way Android is going currently either. But if the hardware isn't supported for FOSS, there's not much I can really do.
@riverpunk @f4grx @nixCraft you're in the same boat if you want to buy an iOS phone ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯
I do wish the device support was wider. I would love to be able to know enough to port something to my phone.
@crmsnbleyd @riverpunk @nixCraft sorry no, if you buy an iphone you know exactly in what foot you are shooting yourself and with what weapon.
draeath@f4grx @crmsnbleyd @riverpunk @nixCraft either way you end up with a leaky foot; there's no practical distinction.
@crmsnbleyd @f4grx @nixCraft right but that's kind of my point, isn't it?
Like, we're not gonna unfuck ourselves from digital hell by just like, making the "correct" consumer choices. it might help, but the world we exist in is so incredibly biased to make it difficult to run these FOSS OS'es for mobile.
The proper solution is necessarily going to have to be a structural one, something systemic. I don't like the way that the common refrain to all problems caused by unregulated capitalism as it intersects with tech is always just "switch to [Linux/Graphine/etc]", when clearly the problems are far deeper entrenched than that. I want people to think first about the systems, and only secondarily about small scale ways they can alleviate some of those systemic pains.
@pluralistic has a great blog post about enshittification being a systemic issue rather than an individual choice problem: https://pluralistic.net/2025/07/31/unsatisfying-answers/
Justin Macleod@riverpunk @crmsnbleyd @f4grx @nixCraft @pluralistic Except that individuals can't usually change deeply entrenched systems. Maybe the emphasis on what the individual can do comes from a lack of belief that the system will change or can be changed. After all, it's not in the people proffiting from it mosts' interests to change it and they have the control.
@riverpunk graphene can run anything android can and challenges things like play protect as monopolistic in EU courts. It's not any less convenient to use graphene other than device support.
Tall Simon@riverpunk @crmsnbleyd @f4grx @nixCraft I have wondered if the solution to obscurity and complexity would be to make the manufacturer liable for return or repair of a product which "does not function as described."
That description is hard (NP hard) for phones.
Of course, if the source code is released, and it is reasonably legible and well engineered, that's the full description.
In the end, we have to get politicians to push on a few, appropriately simple, and hard-to-avoid pressure points if we are going to fix the situation.
@crmsnbleyd @nixCraft they support what, the last 2 pixel? what if I have a smasmug S9 for example?
🏳️🌈🎃🇧🇷Luana🇧🇷🎃🏳️🌈@crmsnbleyd @f4grx @nixCraft postmarketOS is the only true alternative here, if it supports your devices. Graphene and Lineage are still android, and still depends on AOSP which google constantly undermines.
Tho yeah if you want something consumer grade Androids advantages are all just gone at this point.
Rastal@nixCraft This is a good idea BUT
Alternatives exist like #lineageos #grapheneos and a bunch of others that will allow you to actually own your device and it's data, that will allow you to sideload apps until your heart is content, that will empower you to screw Google.
If you continue to not be able to sideload because of #Google, use that as motivation to explore these #opensource alternatives. #SetYourselfFree
Dan
David S
wojtek@Rastal @nixCraft problem is there are a lot of devices where there is not an alternative OS available or they are locked and devices are supported for as long as the maintainer cares / has the device. It is a (mostly) captive market but agree, if you can, escape from the clutches of Apple or Google, do so.
Marcos Dione@Rastal @nixCraft I use both, but there are critical apps like bank apps, which are required as 2FA by the banks, that do not work on those :((( Seemingly here in France there's a legal 'loophole' to put the onus on the bank, but I'm not sure that applies everywhere.
Yes, alternatives exists (like Linux for Windows), and they're really good, but they do not cover all cases :(
🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳
Cregg
Louis Couture
Didek@nixCraft s/sideloading/installing please. Enough with doublespeak.
We want to keep the ability to INSTALL APPS ON OUR PHONES.
Zło To 🏴☠️ ᵗʰʳᵉᵉᶠᶦᵈᵈʸ
Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷@nixCraft I support the effort, yet what it needs is regulation, customer protection legislation, and a publicly funded Android alternative.
Andreas Albrecht@nixCraft The feedback and public consultation periods in the EU ended on October 24. The cited website doesn't reflect this yet.
You can still send feedback to Google. I doubt it will change their position.
Alternative Android-based OS are good, but they also face the restricted market access to the needed developer resources (see their development blogs etc. for more info). Therefore, consumer protection and competition authorities are the right bodies to be addressed here.
squalouJenkins@nixCraft in the meantime in Europe there are law propositions to *force* google and apple to *add* 3rd party stores.
Who will win ? (don't answer)
Who will win ? (don't answer)
Anders Iver@attacnorge Dette er kanskje noe Attac burde vurdere å stille seg bak?
Self-Censored Fake Girl@nixCraft this is all niice but even if y'all can stop google now, they'll try again in a year!
The only sustsainable way forward I see is to have a mobile OS, be it something new, postmarketOS or an android fork... where the entire ecosystem is not controlled by a mega corp!
Leander Lindahl@nixCraft we should stop using the term sideloading, the correct term is installing. It serves googles purposes to use that term and make it sound like you're doing something weird. We don't use that expression when installing software in other contexts.
RalfMaximus"Sideloading" is the new jaywalking, a term invented in the early 20th century to criminalize pedestrians by car makers.
horsetail@nixCraft The dependency on big tech is one of the reasons for me not to use banking apps at all. I use a separate TAN generator to create security tokens for me. For this to work I also needed to order a girocard from my bank; it costs about 12 bugs per year.
Since the Visa debit card which the bank pushes forward doesn’t work with the TAN generator.
Girocard is a German specific, I know. Unfortunately I’ve no idea about the availability of similar services in other countries.
@nixCraft
There’re also concerns that #LineageOS and other open source phone operating systems cannot support all hardware devices.
For me, 99% of all devices aren’t eligible at all for human rights reasons. For me, human rights come before performance, features and so forth.
The only manufacturers being considered for me are @Fairphone and @shiftphones. Maybe there’re a few others.
(I’m not involved in those companies at all, I’m just a user.)
Galacticboy2009@nixCraft Great idea.
The right to install applications on my own personal computers should never be infringed.
The right to install applications on my own personal computers should never be infringed.
Gilles Gagniard@nixCraft We should really avoid this "sideloading" term. It is about the freedom to use any software on a computer that I own, a front-and-center capability, not some shady hacker stuff.
@nixCraft Even if they comply, that’d be a short term and weak solution.
The only real solution is helping and donating to postmarketOS, and fight for laws that obligate companies to allow us to unlock the bootloaders on our devices before more of them start to block this. Preferably they should also allow for relocking using the users own keys. Apps should also be forbidden from requiring stuff like safetynet or google approved devices.
MarkGI wonder if this would affect phones using either LineageOS or GrapheneOS.
Also, from an earlier article (see link), I wonder if development of such alternatives may become more difficult.
Google's AOSP changes may make custom ROMs harder to build for Pixel devices - gHacks Tech News
In March 2025, Google announced that it was moving Android development to a closed environment. Now, it has made some changes to the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) that could signal the […]